OT: Obama photo causes huge stir

[Eric Vey]

This really is over the top.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2008/06/the-obama-on-a.html

The debate is on: The widely circulated photograph of Barack Obama on a
bicycle this last weekend either did the presidential candidate no
favors, or actually helped his cause.

In an article in today's New York Daily News, writer David Saltonstall
shows no mercy, declaring: "It wasn't a pretty picture: ill-fitting
jeans, a tucked-in golf shirt, black-and-white socks and a helmet that
could make Michael Dukakis blush."

Yet in comments to Saltonstall, some Big Apple fashionistas cut Obama
major slack. Simon Doonan, creative director of Barneys New York, says:
"I like seeing my politicians in goofy weekend attire. It means they're
thinking about more important stuff."

Newsweek's Andrew Romano notes today that when the shot of Obama on the
bike as part of an excursion with his family in Chicago "hit the wires,
the heavily trafficked right-wing message boards of Free Republic went
wild."

[more]

[Mike Jacoubowsky]

"Eric Vey" <junker@ericvey.com> wrote in message
news:g2mno0$1ln$1@news.datemas.de...
> This really is over the top.
>
> http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2008/06/the-obama-on-a.html
>
> The debate is on: The widely circulated photograph of Barack Obama on a
> bicycle this last weekend either did the presidential candidate no favors,
> or actually helped his cause.
>
> In an article in today's New York Daily News, writer David Saltonstall
> shows no mercy, declaring: "It wasn't a pretty picture: ill-fitting jeans,
> a tucked-in golf shirt, black-and-white socks and a helmet that could make
> Michael Dukakis blush."
>
> Yet in comments to Saltonstall, some Big Apple fashionistas cut Obama
> major slack. Simon Doonan, creative director of Barneys New York, says: "I
> like seeing my politicians in goofy weekend attire. It means they're
> thinking about more important stuff."

What is the issue here? Looks like a normal guy out riding a bike. The only
thing I notice is that his tires haven't been inflated for a couple of
months. Don't the secret service folk know how to inflate a tire?

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA


"Eric Vey" <junker@ericvey.com> wrote in message
news:g2mno0$1ln$1@news.datemas.de...
> This really is over the top.
>
> http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2008/06/the-obama-on-a.html
>
> The debate is on: The widely circulated photograph of Barack Obama on a
> bicycle this last weekend either did the presidential candidate no favors,
> or actually helped his cause.
>
> In an article in today's New York Daily News, writer David Saltonstall
> shows no mercy, declaring: "It wasn't a pretty picture: ill-fitting jeans,
> a tucked-in golf shirt, black-and-white socks and a helmet that could make
> Michael Dukakis blush."
>
> Yet in comments to Saltonstall, some Big Apple fashionistas cut Obama
> major slack. Simon Doonan, creative director of Barneys New York, says: "I
> like seeing my politicians in goofy weekend attire. It means they're
> thinking about more important stuff."
>
> Newsweek's Andrew Romano notes today that when the shot of Obama on the
> bike as part of an excursion with his family in Chicago "hit the wires,
> the heavily trafficked right-wing message boards of Free Republic went
> wild."
>
> [more]

[Bill Sornson]

Eric Vey wrote:
> This really is over the top.
>
> http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2008/06/the-obama-on-a.html

Other than here, never heard a word about (or saw an image of) it.

Bill "some stir" S.

[Bill Sornson]

What percentage of Americans saw or heard about this photo? 1%? Maybe 2%?

Huge stir...right! LOL

[Woland99]

On Jun 10, 3:27 pm, Eric Vey <jun...@ericvey.com> wrote:
> This really is over the top.
>
> http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2008/06/the-obama-on-a.html
> In an article in today's New York Daily News, writer David Saltonstall
> shows no mercy, declaring: "It wasn't a pretty picture: ill-fitting
> jeans, a tucked-in golf shirt, black-and-white socks and a helmet that
> could make Michael Dukakis blush."

No offense but scolding people for wrong socks when they are just out
to
relax on their bike can only come from some Hollywood-gossip-obsessed
gay-fashion-police bottom feeding junk columnist that suffers from
serious
reality detachment. Who cares about a fashion statement on a bike?
Tire pressure is legit subject - perhaps it is affected by pulling a
trailer?

[SMS]

Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:

> What is the issue here? Looks like a normal guy out riding a bike. The only
> thing I notice is that his tires haven't been inflated for a couple of
> months. Don't the secret service folk know how to inflate a tire?
>
> --Mike Jacoubowsky
> Chain Reaction Bicycles
> www.ChainReaction.com
> Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

Mike, you're just thrilled that he's on a Trek.

The least he could do is buy a Madone from you. You could outfit him
with a better helmet, pedals, shoes, shorts, and jersey as well.

Actually, I presume that you're voting Republican, as the further the
Republicans destroy the economy and drive up gasoline prices, the more
bikes you'll sell.

[Tim McNamara]

In article <1uB3k.12110$co7.10416@nlpi066.nbdc.sbc.com>,
"Mike Jacoubowsky" <MikeJ@ChainReaction.com> wrote:

> What is the issue here? Looks like a normal guy out riding a bike.

Isn't that an oxymoron in America?

[Luke]

In article <1uB3k.12110$co7.10416@nlpi066.nbdc.sbc.com>, Mike
Jacoubowsky <MikeJ@ChainReaction.com> wrote:

> > http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2008/06/the-obama-on-a.html
> >
<snip>
>
> What is the issue here? Looks like a normal guy out riding a bike. The only
> thing I notice is that his tires haven't been inflated for a couple of
> months. Don't the secret service folk know how to inflate a tire?


No dog this fight. I'd wager what you're seeing is the American
penchant of obsessing about and/or politicizing every trivial banality
of those unfortunate enough to be afflicted with a public profile.

[Eric Vey]

Bill Sornson wrote:
> Eric Vey wrote:
>> This really is over the top.
>>
>> http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2008/06/the-obama-on-a.html
>
> Other than here, never heard a word about (or saw an image of) it.
>
> Bill "some stir" S.
>
>

If you want to travel with the Right Wingers, then please keep up with them:
http://www.blog.newsweek.com/blogs/stumper/archive/2008/06/10/obama-s-geeky-get-up-bad-fashion-good-politics.aspx
http://griffsnotesdc.blogspot.com/2008/06/oops-someone-please-tell-him.html
http://www.foxnews.com/video/index.html?playerId=videolandingpage&streamingFormat=FLASH&referralObject=1275419&referralPlaylistId=1481a0966390ee01f45060178f27e90 c2fb3dfb8

[Tom Kunich]

"Bill Sornson" <askme@ask.me> wrote in message
news:484ef00e$0$12975$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
> Eric Vey wrote:
>> This really is over the top.
>>
>> http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2008/06/the-obama-on-a.html
>
> Other than here, never heard a word about (or saw an image of) it.

Yet of course the Liberals will scream about how their love-bug was attacked
by the vicious right wing propaganda machine. Which of course means that the
fascist Liberals will invent another race war.

[Eric Vey]

Eric Vey wrote:
> Bill Sornson wrote:
>> Eric Vey wrote:
>>> This really is over the top.
>>>
>>> http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2008/06/the-obama-on-a.html
>>
>> Other than here, never heard a word about (or saw an image of) it.
>>
>> Bill "some stir" S.
>>
>
> If you want to travel with the Right Wingers, then please keep up with
> them:
> http://www.blog.newsweek.com/blogs/stumper/archive/2008/06/10/obama-s-geeky-get-up-bad-fashion-good-politics.aspx
>
> http://griffsnotesdc.blogspot.com/2008/06/oops-someone-please-tell-him.html
> http://www.foxnews.com/video/index.html?playerId=videolandingpage&streamingFormat=FLASH&referralObject=1275419&referralPlaylistId=1481a0966390ee01f45060178f27e90 c2fb3dfb8
>

And if you don't want to keep up, then please don't complain that all
you see is asses and elbows.

[Bill Sornson]

Eric Vey wrote:
> Eric Vey wrote:
>> Bill Sornson wrote:
>>> Eric Vey wrote:
>>>> This really is over the top.
>>>>
>>>> http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2008/06/the-obama-on-a.html
>>>
>>> Other than here, never heard a word about (or saw an image of) it.
>>>
>>> Bill "some stir" S.
>>>
>>
>> If you want to travel with the Right Wingers, then please keep up
>> with them:
>> http://www.blog.newsweek.com/blogs/stumper/archive/2008/06/10/obama-s-geeky-get-up-bad-fashion-good-politics.aspx
>>
>> http://griffsnotesdc.blogspot.com/2008/06/oops-someone-please-tell-him.html
>> http://www.foxnews.com/video/index.html?playerId=videolandingpage&streamingFormat=FLASH&referralObject=1275419&referralPlaylistId=1481a0966390ee01f45060178f27e90 c2fb3dfb8
>>
>
> And if you don't want to keep up, then please don't complain that all
> you see is asses and elbows.

I see. So you say it's created a "huge stir", and because I don't frequent
some obscure blogs (Dept. of Redundancy Dept.), I'm the one who's out of
touch for not having seen it.

Got it.

[Eric Vey]

Tom Kunich wrote:
> "Bill Sornson" <askme@ask.me> wrote in message
> news:484ef00e$0$12975$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>> Eric Vey wrote:
>>> This really is over the top.
>>>
>>> http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2008/06/the-obama-on-a.html
>>
>> Other than here, never heard a word about (or saw an image of) it.
>
> Yet of course the Liberals will scream about how their love-bug was
> attacked by the vicious right wing propaganda machine. Which of course
> means that the fascist Liberals will invent another race war.
>

invent one? Son, how old are you? There has been a race war going on as
long as I have been alive. Anyone that denies it either is too young to
know better or is old enough to know they should deny everything.

[landotter]

On Jun 10, 5:05*pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
> "Bill Sornson" <as...@ask.me> wrote in message
>
> news:484ef00e$0$12975$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>
> > Eric Vey wrote:
> >> This really is over the top.
>
> >>http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2008/06/the-obama-on-a.html
>
> > Other than here, never heard a word about (or saw an image of) it.
>
> Yet of course the Liberals will scream about how their love-bug was attacked
> by the vicious right wing propaganda machine. Which of course means that the
> fascist Liberals will invent another race war.

"fascist liberal"? Hilarious! I should have plonked you long ago when
I noticed that like most wingnuts, you simply like to like for the
hell of it--see the thread on Tufo tires yesterday when you simply
made **** up. Same goes for the phrase "fascist liberal", a term which
doesn't exist in reality--but that's parroted by idiots on the right
that listen to other idiots like Jonah Goldberg. When you've dug a
hole defining yourself as stupid--it's time to put down the shovel.

[Pat]

>> Yet of course the Liberals will scream about how their love-bug was
>> attacked by the vicious right wing propaganda machine. Which of course
>> means that the fascist Liberals will invent another race war.
>>
>
> invent one? Son, how old are you? There has been a race war going on as
> long as I have been alive. Anyone that denies it either is too young to
> know better or is old enough to know they should deny everything.

Eric, hang around and pretty soon you won't be surprised about anything Tom
rants and raves about. What we call in Texas "all heat and no light."

Pat

[Bill Sornson]

Eric Vey wrote:
> Tom Kunich wrote:
>> "Bill Sornson" <askme@ask.me> wrote in message
>> news:484ef00e$0$12975$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>>> Eric Vey wrote:
>>>> This really is over the top.
>>>>
>>>> http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2008/06/the-obama-on-a.html
>>>
>>> Other than here, never heard a word about (or saw an image of) it.
>>
>> Yet of course the Liberals will scream about how their love-bug was
>> attacked by the vicious right wing propaganda machine. Which of
>> course means that the fascist Liberals will invent another race war.
>>
>
> invent one? Son, how old are you? There has been a race war going on
> as long as I have been alive. Anyone that denies it either is too
> young to know better or is old enough to know they should deny
> everything.

Hell, all you had to do was watch the Democrat primaries! LOL

[Tom Kunich]

"Eric Vey" <junker@ericvey.com> wrote in message
news:g2mu5r$erf$1@news.datemas.de...
> Tom Kunich wrote:
>>
>> Yet of course the Liberals will scream about how their love-bug was
>> attacked by the vicious right wing propaganda machine. Which of course
>> means that the fascist Liberals will invent another race war.
>
> invent one? Son, how old are you? There has been a race war going on as
> long as I have been alive. Anyone that denies it either is too young to
> know better or is old enough to know they should deny everything.

By all means tell us all about it.

[Tom Kunich]

"SMS" <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote in message
news:fpD3k.7491$mh5.4470@nlpi067.nbdc.sbc.com...
>
> Actually, I presume that you're voting Republican, as the further the
> Republicans destroy the economy and drive up gasoline prices, the more
> bikes you'll sell.

I don't have any horse in that Republican race but surely you wouldn't vote
for Obama whose sum value is that he is partially black?

[Mike Jacoubowsky]

"SMS" <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote in message
news:fpD3k.7491$mh5.4470@nlpi067.nbdc.sbc.com...
> Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
>
>> What is the issue here? Looks like a normal guy out riding a bike. The
>> only thing I notice is that his tires haven't been inflated for a couple
>> of months. Don't the secret service folk know how to inflate a tire?
>>
>> --Mike Jacoubowsky
>> Chain Reaction Bicycles
>> www.ChainReaction.com
>> Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
>
> Mike, you're just thrilled that he's on a Trek.
>
> The least he could do is buy a Madone from you. You could outfit him with
> a better helmet, pedals, shoes, shorts, and jersey as well.
>
> Actually, I presume that you're voting Republican, as the further the
> Republicans destroy the economy and drive up gasoline prices, the more
> bikes you'll sell.

Uh... no. I can sell hybrids (the bike of choice for those who want to try
bike commuting) all day long and not come close to paying the bills on this
place. And I will and do sell hybrids all day long. But $5/gallon gas
displaces a *LOT* of disposable income, and it's not as if someone has to
buy a $2500 road bike as a means to survive day-to-day life. Well, OK, maybe
you, maybe me, but we're not normal.

Probably the biggest effect of $5/gallon gas will be a withering of the
moderately-priced mountain bike market, with those sales moving to hybrids.
People will start to get more practical in terms of how they're actually
going to use the bike, and that's a good thing. What will be interesting is
whether we see a steep decline in high-end mountain bikes because people
won't want to spend the $$$ on gas to drive to the places they enjoy riding.
I don't actually think that will happen; I don't think our brains are wired
to make that sort of connection when we're dreaming about what we like to
do.

Still, it's a powerful message for road bikes that you can enjoy them right
out the front door of your house, no gasoline required.

As for political affiliations, I think TK can assure you I'm not a
republican.

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA


"SMS" <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote in message
news:fpD3k.7491$mh5.4470@nlpi067.nbdc.sbc.com...
> Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
>
>> What is the issue here? Looks like a normal guy out riding a bike. The
>> only thing I notice is that his tires haven't been inflated for a couple
>> of months. Don't the secret service folk know how to inflate a tire?
>>
>> --Mike Jacoubowsky
>> Chain Reaction Bicycles
>> www.ChainReaction.com
>> Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
>
> Mike, you're just thrilled that he's on a Trek.
>
> The least he could do is buy a Madone from you. You could outfit him with
> a better helmet, pedals, shoes, shorts, and jersey as well.
>
> Actually, I presume that you're voting Republican, as the further the
> Republicans destroy the economy and drive up gasoline prices, the more
> bikes you'll sell.

[Eric Vey]

Bill Sornson wrote:
> Eric Vey wrote:
>> Eric Vey wrote:
>>> Bill Sornson wrote:
>>>> Eric Vey wrote:
>>>>> This really is over the top.
>>>>>
>>>>> http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2008/06/the-obama-on-a.html
>>>> Other than here, never heard a word about (or saw an image of) it.
>>>>
>>>> Bill "some stir" S.
>>>>
>>> If you want to travel with the Right Wingers, then please keep up
>>> with them:
>>> http://www.blog.newsweek.com/blogs/stumper/archive/2008/06/10/obama-s-geeky-get-up-bad-fashion-good-politics.aspx
>>>
>>> http://griffsnotesdc.blogspot.com/2008/06/oops-someone-please-tell-him.html
>>> http://www.foxnews.com/video/index.html?playerId=videolandingpage&streamingFormat=FLASH&referralObject=1275419&referralPlaylistId=1481a0966390ee01f45060178f27e90 c2fb3dfb8
>>>
>> And if you don't want to keep up, then please don't complain that all
>> you see is asses and elbows.
>
> I see. So you say it's created a "huge stir", and because I don't frequent
> some obscure blogs (Dept. of Redundancy Dept.), I'm the one who's out of
> touch for not having seen it.
>
> Got it.
>
>

"Obscure Blogs":

1. Fox News isn't a blog and it isn't obscure since even "basic cable"
carries it here on analog.

2. You think that Newsweek is obscure, since when?

3. griffsnotes? It's about on par with Drudge. It's a Drudge wannabee.
I suppose if it doesn't appear on Drudge, it isn't "news" is it?

[Eric Vey]

Bill Sornson wrote:
> Eric Vey wrote:
>> Tom Kunich wrote:
>>> "Bill Sornson" <askme@ask.me> wrote in message
>>> news:484ef00e$0$12975$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>>>> Eric Vey wrote:
>>>>> This really is over the top.
>>>>>
>>>>> http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2008/06/the-obama-on-a.html
>>>> Other than here, never heard a word about (or saw an image of) it.
>>> Yet of course the Liberals will scream about how their love-bug was
>>> attacked by the vicious right wing propaganda machine. Which of
>>> course means that the fascist Liberals will invent another race war.
>>>
>> invent one? Son, how old are you? There has been a race war going on
>> as long as I have been alive. Anyone that denies it either is too
>> young to know better or is old enough to know they should deny
>> everything.
>
> Hell, all you had to do was watch the Democrat primaries! LOL
>
>

Son, how old are you?

[SMS]

Tom Kunich wrote:
> "SMS" <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote in message
> news:fpD3k.7491$mh5.4470@nlpi067.nbdc.sbc.com...
>>
>> Actually, I presume that you're voting Republican, as the further the
>> Republicans destroy the economy and drive up gasoline prices, the more
>> bikes you'll sell.
>
> I don't have any horse in that Republican race but surely you wouldn't
> vote for Obama whose sum value is that he is partially black?

Hillary and Obama weren't my first choices, but of course I'll vote for
him. McCain has far more negatives than Obama.

Undoing eight years of W is going to be a daunting task for whoever gets
elected.

[Mike Jacoubowsky]

"Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote in message
news:yY2dnTtRaYmFlNLVnZ2dnUVZ_gOdnZ2d@earthlink.co m...
> "SMS" <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote in message
> news:fpD3k.7491$mh5.4470@nlpi067.nbdc.sbc.com...
>>
>> Actually, I presume that you're voting Republican, as the further the
>> Republicans destroy the economy and drive up gasoline prices, the more
>> bikes you'll sell.
>
> I don't have any horse in that Republican race but surely you wouldn't
> vote for Obama whose sum value is that he is partially black?

No, I'd vote for him because he's partially reasonable. Which is a lot more
than I can say for most folk in DC. And I've met quite a few.

My thinking is that the republicans aren't serious about this election
anyway. They're putting up a throwaway candidate, someone they don't think
has that much of a shot at winning, and if he does, someone who probably
isn't going to go for a second term. They're hoping they can come up with
someone who's truly distinguished his (or her) self in some positive way
without the Iraq baggage (which is hopelessly tied to McCain).

They're also hoping that Obama is a lot more liberal than he probably is.
They're hoping he polarizes the debate, rather than works for a consensus.
If that's really what they think, I believe they're in for a surprise. He's
the most-gifted speaker we've seen in quite some time, and, in DC, style
*does* matter and *does* get things done. Substance is debated endlessly.
But gifted speakers can motivate people and draw them together.

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA


"Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote in message
news:yY2dnTtRaYmFlNLVnZ2dnUVZ_gOdnZ2d@earthlink.co m...
> "SMS" <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote in message
> news:fpD3k.7491$mh5.4470@nlpi067.nbdc.sbc.com...
>>
>> Actually, I presume that you're voting Republican, as the further the
>> Republicans destroy the economy and drive up gasoline prices, the more
>> bikes you'll sell.
>
> I don't have any horse in that Republican race but surely you wouldn't
> vote for Obama whose sum value is that he is partially black?

[Eric Vey]

Tom Kunich wrote:
> "Eric Vey" <junker@ericvey.com> wrote in message
> news:g2mu5r$erf$1@news.datemas.de...
>> Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>
>>> Yet of course the Liberals will scream about how their love-bug was
>>> attacked by the vicious right wing propaganda machine. Which of
>>> course means that the fascist Liberals will invent another race war.
>>
>> invent one? Son, how old are you? There has been a race war going on
>> as long as I have been alive. Anyone that denies it either is too
>> young to know better or is old enough to know they should deny
>> everything.
>
> By all means tell us all about it.

What would you like me to tell you about?

[John Forrest Tomlinson]

Tom Kunich wrote:
> I don't have any horse in that Republican race but surely you wouldn't
> vote for Obama whose sum value is that he is partially black?

You're such an ass.

[Bill Sornson]

SMS wrote:
> Tom Kunich wrote:
>> "SMS" <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote in message
>> news:fpD3k.7491$mh5.4470@nlpi067.nbdc.sbc.com...
>>>
>>> Actually, I presume that you're voting Republican, as the further
>>> the Republicans destroy the economy and drive up gasoline prices,
>>> the more bikes you'll sell.
>>
>> I don't have any horse in that Republican race but surely you
>> wouldn't vote for Obama whose sum value is that he is partially
>> black?
>
> Hillary and Obama weren't my first choices, but of course I'll vote
> for him. McCain has far more negatives than Obama.
>
> Undoing eight years of W is going to be a daunting task for whoever
> gets elected.

Yeah, no attacks in nearly 8 years, record number of consecutive quarters of
economic growth (only NOW an issue since the slowdown...nowhere near a
literal "recession" btw), record high home ownership (esp. among
minorities), low inflation, low unemployment (below the averages of the 60s,
70s, 80s and 90s), low taxes especially for the middle class (upper &
lower), NO taxes for the poor, etc. etc. etc.

The Dems can only improve on that! LOL

Bill "new spectator sport: watching the media SPIN FOR BARRACK next 4 to 8
years" S.

[Bill Sornson]

Eric Vey wrote:
> Bill Sornson wrote:
>> Eric Vey wrote:
>>> Eric Vey wrote:
>>>> Bill Sornson wrote:
>>>>> Eric Vey wrote:
>>>>>> This really is over the top.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2008/06/the-obama-on-a.html
>>>>> Other than here, never heard a word about (or saw an image of) it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Bill "some stir" S.
>>>>>
>>>> If you want to travel with the Right Wingers, then please keep up
>>>> with them:
>>>> http://www.blog.newsweek.com/blogs/stumper/archive/2008/06/10/obama-s-geeky-get-up-bad-fashion-good-politics.aspx
>>>>
>>>> http://griffsnotesdc.blogspot.com/2008/06/oops-someone-please-tell-him.html
>>>> http://www.foxnews.com/video/index.html?playerId=videolandingpage&streamingFormat=FLASH&referralObject=1275419&referralPlaylistId=1481a0966390ee01f45060178f27e90 c2fb3dfb8
>>>>
>>> And if you don't want to keep up, then please don't complain that
>>> all you see is asses and elbows.

>> I see. So you say it's created a "huge stir", and because I don't
>> frequent some obscure blogs (Dept. of Redundancy Dept.), I'm the one
>> who's out of touch for not having seen it.
>>
>> Got it.


> "Obscure Blogs":
>
> 1. Fox News isn't a blog and it isn't obscure since even "basic cable"
> carries it here on analog.

Watch it often. Never saw Obama on a bike. (Not to say they didn't run it,
but it sure as hell wasn't a "huge stir" if they did.)

> 2. You think that Newsweek is obscure, since when?

"Huge stir" -- since when? (It's nearly irrelevant nowadays, and as such
incapable of creating a huge stir. Maybe it could /cover/ one, but then
it -- the huge stir -- would have to exist.)

> 3. griffsnotes? It's about on par with Drudge. It's a Drudge wannabee.
> I suppose if it doesn't appear on Drudge, it isn't "news" is it?

"HUGE STIR" -- let's just say you imagined and/or hyped it and leave it at
that.

HTH! BS

[Bill Sornson]

Eric Vey wrote:
> Bill Sornson wrote:
>> Eric Vey wrote:
>>> Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>> "Bill Sornson" <askme@ask.me> wrote in message
>>>> news:484ef00e$0$12975$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>>>>> Eric Vey wrote:
>>>>>> This really is over the top.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2008/06/the-obama-on-a.html
>>>>> Other than here, never heard a word about (or saw an image of) it.
>>>> Yet of course the Liberals will scream about how their love-bug was
>>>> attacked by the vicious right wing propaganda machine. Which of
>>>> course means that the fascist Liberals will invent another race
>>>> war.
>>> invent one? Son, how old are you? There has been a race war going on
>>> as long as I have been alive. Anyone that denies it either is too
>>> young to know better or is old enough to know they should deny
>>> everything.
>>
>> Hell, all you had to do was watch the Democrat primaries! LOL
>>
>>
>
> Son, how old are you?

Old enough to know how long Democrats have been bigots, KKK members (oops,
sorry, LEADERS), and race baiting hypocrites. (Ask Michael Steele about
having Oreo cookies thrown at him...in my old home state, no less.)

HTH!

[Tom Kunich]

"John Forrest Tomlinson" <usenetremove@jt10000.com> wrote in message
news:u0au44dk79bqgrn9clvhalvde6cknq8b8b@4ax.com...
> Tom Kunich wrote:
>> I don't have any horse in that Republican race but surely you wouldn't
>> vote for Obama whose sum value is that he is partially black?
>
> You're such an ass.

Well, this "ass" grew up in east Oakland. I went to a school that was mostly
black and most of my friends were black. The neighborhood respectable elders
were mostly black.

And then came the 60's and they were all shoved aside and told they were
Uncle Toms or traitors to their race.

Tell you what John - you vote for someone who hasn't a shred of reliable
record. You vote for someone whose friends include Weathermen and black
extremists. If you think that you'll get anything from that you're welcome
to try.

I don't want McCain in office because he's a stupid fool who would try to be
another Bill Clinton as far as national policy is concerned. If the
President is going to be an utter failure who in the end will be opposed by
his own party I'd as soon see Obama.

[Tom Kunich]

"Mike Jacoubowsky" <MikeJ@ChainReaction.com> wrote in message
news:GTF3k.2793$cW3.2691@nlpi064.nbdc.sbc.com...
>
> My thinking is that the republicans aren't serious about this election
> anyway. They're putting up a throwaway candidate, someone they don't think
> has that much of a shot at winning, and if he does, someone who probably
> isn't going to go for a second term.

McCain was put on to the bill by the Liberal Press and no one else.

[Bill Sornson]

Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
> "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote in message
> news:yY2dnTtRaYmFlNLVnZ2dnUVZ_gOdnZ2d@earthlink.co m...
>> "SMS" <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote in message
>> news:fpD3k.7491$mh5.4470@nlpi067.nbdc.sbc.com...
>>>
>>> Actually, I presume that you're voting Republican, as the further
>>> the Republicans destroy the economy and drive up gasoline prices,
>>> the more bikes you'll sell.
>>
>> I don't have any horse in that Republican race but surely you
>> wouldn't vote for Obama whose sum value is that he is partially
>> black?
>
> No, I'd vote for him because he's partially reasonable. Which is a
> lot more than I can say for most folk in DC. And I've met quite a few.
>
> My thinking is that the republicans aren't serious about this election
> anyway. They're putting up a throwaway candidate, someone they don't
> think has that much of a shot at winning, and if he does, someone who
> probably isn't going to go for a second term. They're hoping they can
> come up with someone who's truly distinguished his (or her) self in
> some positive way without the Iraq baggage (which is hopelessly tied
> to McCain).
> They're also hoping that Obama is a lot more liberal than he probably
> is. They're hoping he polarizes the debate, rather than works for a
> consensus. If that's really what they think, I believe they're in for
> a surprise. He's the most-gifted speaker we've seen in quite some
> time, and, in DC, style *does* matter and *does* get things done.
> Substance is debated endlessly. But gifted speakers can motivate
> people and draw them together.

Have you heard him speak without a teleprompter? 57 states, breathalyzers
for asthmatic kids, long stuttering streaks, etc. And that's not counting
his flip-flops, incorrect and flat-out made-up comments. No wonder he
avoids press conferences like the plague.

As for McCain, he's simply a horrid speaker. You can thank the northeast
media and New Hampshire "independents" (sabotaging Dems) for his candidacy.
Throw-away isn't the half of it.

Bill "time to hunker down" S.

[Frank Krygowski]

On Jun 10, 9:28 pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <Mi...@ChainReaction.com>
wrote:
> [Obama is
> the most-gifted speaker we've seen in quite some time, and, in DC, style
> *does* matter and *does* get things done. Substance is debated endlessly.
> But gifted speakers can motivate people and draw them together.

Well, I'd feel a lot better about him if he were running for Poet
Laureate instead of President.

- Frank Krygowski

[Ron Ruff]

On Jun 10, 7:34*pm, "Bill Sornson" <as...@ask.me> wrote:
> SMS wrote:
> > Undoing eight years of W is going to be a daunting task for whoever
> > gets elected.
>
> Yeah, no attacks in nearly 8 years

This is hilarious! Where do you get this stuff?

Nearly 7 years I guess... but how many years did we go before that
without any attacks?

> record number of consecutive quarters of
> economic growth

BS truly. Apparently you didn't bother to look this one up. It is the
age of the internet... there is no excuse...

> record high home ownership (esp. among
> minorities)

And being foreclosed on at record rates!... not exactly "ownership" in
any sense... and personal debt is far higher than ever in history.

> low unemployment (below the averages of the 60s,
> 70s, 80s and 90s), low taxes especially for the middle class (upper &
> lower), NO taxes for the poor, etc. etc. etc.

The low unemployment rates are due to the fact that there are no more
unions and after your 6 months of unemployment benefits you are
officially no longer unemployed. Therefore if you do not want to live
on the streets, you must take any crappy job you can find. The working
poor certainly are still paying taxes... as always. Add to that the
obvious fact that W has run up huge deficits to finance his "tax cuts"
which overwhelmingly favored the richest people... the value of the
dollar is in the toilet, etc. Extremely irresponsible fiscal
policy...

[John Forrest Tomlinson]

On Tue, 10 Jun 2008 18:34:24 -0700, "Bill Sornson" <askme@ask.me>
wrote:

>Yeah, no attacks in nearly 8 years,

Right. Start the count right right after the biggest attacks in
decades. And ignore the anthrax attacks. And also the US soldiers
gettign killed now. Heckuva job there Georgie

> record number of consecutive quarters of
>economic growth

Record slump in growth of real income for most Americans.
>(only NOW an issue since the slowdown...nowhere near a
>literal "recession" btw), record high home ownership (esp. among
>minorities),

And record personal bankrupcies and homeforeclosures.

> low inflation,

True that.

> low unemployment (below the averages of the 60s,
>70s, 80s and 90s),

Due to job seekers giving up.

[Eric Vey]

Bill Sornson wrote:

>
> "HUGE STIR" -- let's just say you imagined and/or hyped it and leave it at
> that.
>
> HTH! BS

Don't blame me for being ahead of the curve.

http://www.blackvoices.com/blogs/2008/06/11/obama-rides-a-bike-you-dont-have-to-stare/
"If McCain gets elected we'll ALL be riding bikes because we won't be
able to afford gas." ...

http://www.huliq.com/61589/obama-rides-his-bike-chicago-coolness-plummets
Something tells me he hasn’t had many opportunities to be a regular
citizen, doing every day things. He’s just out of practice and isn’t
likely to hone those skills any time soon. Does this look like the next
leader of the free world to you?


http://www.queerty.com/obama-loses-tabloid-vote-20080611/
If there’s one thing in which Us Weekly shouldn’t be involved, it’s
politics.

So, naturally, the magazine has decided to judge the candidates based on
their fashion — because the state of the country doesn’t matter if
Barack Obama and John McCain aren’t looking good.

http://www.jaunted.com/story/2008/6/10/2338/57493/travel/Cycling+Travel:+Obama+Scorns+Your+Spandex
We chuckled when the site Barack Obama Is Your New Bicycle poked fun at
the Democratic senator's ascribed powers. But fashionistas found the
presumptive presidential candidate's choice of attire for riding a bike
this weekend downright bizarre. What? No one wants to see a politician
in bike shorts.

http://mediamatters.org/items/200806100003?f=h_latest
Fox's Griff Jenkins on Obama bike ride: "Where is he going? ... [M]aybe
to get a pocket protector for his nerd pencils"

Summary: On Live Desk, Griff Jenkins said of a recent photo of Sen.
Barack Obama taking a bicycle ride: "Where is he going? And I was
thinking, maybe to get a pocket protector for his nerd pencils. What is
that?"

http://laist.com/2008/06/09/obama_rides_a_b.php
Obama Rides a Bike, McCain Calls for 'Gas Tax Holiday'

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/06/09/politics/politico/main4162787.shtml
To understand the stylistic gulf between Barack Obama and John McCain,
first consider their cultural references. . . .

And Obama can sometimes look less than hip, touting a traditional home
life centered on children’s activities like sleepovers, bicycle rides
and dance recitals.

Google for more.
How many quotes do I have to give you before you are satisfied.

[John Forrest Tomlinson]

On Tue, 10 Jun 2008 18:54:43 -0700, "Bill Sornson" <askme@ask.me>
wrote:

>Bill "time to hunker down" S.

I have this vision of Sorni in ten years as a mentally very old man,
still hunkered down, two or three friends. Listening to talk radio.
Ragging on the US leades the way nuts in the 70s were still talking
about that commie FDR. His own family embarrassed to be seen with
him.

[Frank Krygowski]

On Jun 10, 9:54 pm, "Bill Sornson" <as...@ask.me> wrote:
>
> Have you heard him speak without a teleprompter? 57 states, breathalyzers
> for asthmatic kids, long stuttering streaks, etc. And that's not counting
> his flip-flops, incorrect and flat-out made-up comments. No wonder he
> avoids press conferences like the plague.

Wait - did you switch the subject to George W. Bush?

BTW, I watch very little TV, but I try to never miss David Letterman's
"Great Moments in Presidential Speeches." It 'stars" George W. Bush,
with actual footage of bumbling, inarticulate, nonsensical speech.
It's invariably hilarious.

And it's wonderful that there is so much of that material available!

- Frank Krygowski

[John Forrest Tomlinson]

On Tue, 10 Jun 2008 21:57:47 -0500, Tim McNamara
<timmcn@bitstream.net> wrote:

>In article <1uB3k.12110$co7.10416@nlpi066.nbdc.sbc.com>,
> "Mike Jacoubowsky" <MikeJ@ChainReaction.com> wrote:
>
>> What is the issue here? Looks like a normal guy out riding a bike.
>
>Isn't that an oxymoron in America?

LOL.

[Tom Kunich]

"Ron Ruff" <rruffrruff@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:7195742d-d359-494e-8d91-1ce7277d8dc6@m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
On Jun 10, 7:34 pm, "Bill Sornson" <as...@ask.me> wrote:
> > Yeah, no attacks in nearly 8 years
>
> This is hilarious! Where do you get this stuff?
>
> Nearly 7 years I guess... but how many years did we go before that
> without any attacks?

Your point is taken Ron but tell me - do you suppose that once started that
they intended to stop?

> > record high home ownership (esp. among
> > minorities)
>
> And being foreclosed on at record rates!... not exactly "ownership" in
> any sense... and personal debt is far higher than ever in history.

So your position is that it is bad to own your own home? I've been looking
at all of the houses for sale in my metropolitan area and here's what I
see - the houses that are up for sale were vastly overpriced for their
quality or their neighborhood. People bought them mostly because they could
see the prices of housing skyrocketing and bought so that they would have
something that they could afford before the prices went out of their range.

After the property values started coming back down where they belong, people
realized that they owned more on a ratty house than they would pay for a
nice one in a good neighborhood and simply walked away from the loans. So
you dump your house and get another nicer one for cheaper under your
significant other's credit union instead of your bank loan.

> > low unemployment (below the averages of the 60s,
> > 70s, 80s and 90s), low taxes especially for the middle class (upper &
> > lower), NO taxes for the poor, etc. etc. etc.
>
> The low unemployment rates are due to the fact that there are no more
> unions and after your 6 months of unemployment benefits you are
> officially no longer unemployed.

Wrong. You don't disappear from the roles until over a year. We actually
have had a long period of very low unemployment.

[Tim McNamara]

In article
<7195742d-d359-494e-8d91-1ce7277d8dc6@m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com>,
Ron Ruff <rruffrruff@yahoo.com> wrote:

> On Jun 10, 7:34*pm, "Bill Sornson" <as...@ask.me> wrote:
> > SMS wrote:
> > > Undoing eight years of W is going to be a daunting task for
> > > whoever gets elected.
> >
> > Yeah, no attacks in nearly 8 years
>
> This is hilarious! Where do you get this stuff?
>
> Nearly 7 years I guess... but how many years did we go before that
> without any attacks?

Hey, man, the War of Terror is like tiger repellant I just bought. I
look around, no tigers, stuff must work great! The War of Terror and
the Trillion Dollar Tax Cut and unbridled irresponsible pork barrel
spending 2000-2006 resulting in expansion of the national debt to
$9,413,165,479,470.23 was worth it. We're safe as houses now.

You gonna write George a check for the $30,948.32 that's your part of
the national debt?

http://www.lafn.org/gvdc/Natl_Debt_Chart.html

http://www.cedarcomm.com/~stevelm1/usdebt.htm

[Bill Sornson]

Tom Kunich wrote:
> "Ron Ruff" <rruffrruff@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:7195742d-d359-494e-8d91-1ce7277d8dc6@m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> On Jun 10, 7:34 pm, "Bill Sornson" <as...@ask.me> wrote:
>>> Yeah, no attacks in nearly 8 years
>>
>> This is hilarious! Where do you get this stuff?
>>
>> Nearly 7 years I guess... but how many years did we go before that
>> without any attacks?
>
> Your point is taken Ron but tell me - do you suppose that once
> started that they intended to stop?

I plonked Ron because he's a moron, but does he really need someone to list
all the attacks in the '90s? As the 9-11 Commission put it, "They were at
war with us. We weren't at war with them." (Paraphrased...perhaps.)
>
>>> record high home ownership (esp. among
>>> minorities)
>>
>> And being foreclosed on at record rates!... not exactly "ownership"
>> in any sense... and personal debt is far higher than ever in history.
>
> So your position is that it is bad to own your own home? I've been
> looking at all of the houses for sale in my metropolitan area and
> here's what I see - the houses that are up for sale were vastly overpriced
> for their
> quality or their neighborhood. People bought them mostly because they
> could see the prices of housing skyrocketing and bought so that they
> would have something that they could afford before the prices went
> out of their range.

People also committed outright fraud, claiming super-inflated incomes with a
wink and a nod from lenders.

As usual, the admin is no win. Make things conducive for disadvantaged
borrowers; or don't and be called unfeeling (or worse, racist).

> After the property values started coming back down where they belong,
> people realized that they owned more on a ratty house than they would
> pay for a nice one in a good neighborhood and simply walked away from
> the loans. So you dump your house and get another nicer one for
> cheaper under your significant other's credit union instead of your
> bank loan.
>>> low unemployment (below the averages of the 60s,
>>> 70s, 80s and 90s), low taxes especially for the middle class (upper
>>> & lower), NO taxes for the poor, etc. etc. etc.
>>
>> The low unemployment rates are due to the fact that there are no more
>> unions and after your 6 months of unemployment benefits you are
>> officially no longer unemployed.
>
> Wrong. You don't disappear from the roles until over a year. We
> actually have had a long period of very low unemployment.

Ron literally can't handle facts. They really seem to stymie him.

[Ron Ruff]

On Jun 10, 11:04*pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
> "Ron Ruff" <rruffrr...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > And being foreclosed on at record rates!... not exactly "ownership" in
> > any sense... and personal debt is far higher than ever in history.
>
> So your position is that it is bad to own your own home?

My position is that the period of "high ownership" was due to insane
and unregulated lending policy. The banks were not responsible for the
money they lent, so they didn't care if the borrower could pay it
back. I can remember the days when you needed to put down 20%, and
your payments could not exceed 30% of your gross... and yes they
actually checked. Loose lending practices lead to speculative price
increases, fraud, and eventually a bursting of the bubble... which we
have not felt the worst of yet. This benefits on one except those who
manipulated this system to make (steal) huge profits. The same thing
has happened in the credit card industry. We can pretend that the
economy is good so long as we can have an ever increasing debt that we
can use to finance purchases... but eventually we need to pay these
debts off. A similar thing occurs with the federal debt, but since
they print the money it merely results in a devaluation, and is less
obvious.

> > The low unemployment rates are due to the fact that there are no more
> > unions and after your 6 months of unemployment benefits you are
> > officially no longer unemployed.
>
> Wrong. You don't disappear from the roles until over a year. We actually
> have had a long period of very low unemployment.

"Benefits can be paid for a maximum of 26 weeks in most States."
http://www.workforcesecurity.doleta.gov/unemploy/uifactsheet.asp

Anyway, the fact remains that number of people in the low-wage no-
benefit workforce has expanded, because you have to take whatever you
can get... and usually compete with illegal immigrants as well.

[Tom Kunich]

"John Forrest Tomlinson" <usenetremove@jt10000.com> wrote in message
news:fp7v4451qj9rrgk04p6o1g7eduvdtiu9to@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 10 Jun 2008 18:34:24 -0700, "Bill Sornson" <askme@ask.me>
> wrote:
>
>> record number of consecutive quarters of
>>economic growth
>
> Record slump in growth of real income for most Americans.

There most certainly is something in what you say - however, in case you
missed it - that slump is caused by deficit spending. Now in case you missed
it - there's a Democrat congress approving all that spending.

>>record high home ownership (esp. among minorities),
>
> And record personal bankrupcies and homeforeclosures.

What was the alternative John?

>> low inflation,
>
> True that.

That must have hurt to agree with.

>> low unemployment (below the averages of the 60s,
>>70s, 80s and 90s),
>
> Due to job seekers giving up.

Then you DO have a reference for that statement?

[Bill Sornson]

Tom Kunich wrote:
> "John Forrest Tomlinson" <usenetremove@jt10000.com> wrote in message
> news:fp7v4451qj9rrgk04p6o1g7eduvdtiu9to@4ax.com...
>> On Tue, 10 Jun 2008 18:34:24 -0700, "Bill Sornson" <askme@ask.me>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> record number of consecutive quarters of
>>> economic growth
>>
>> Record slump in growth of real income for most Americans.
>
> There most certainly is something in what you say - however, in case
> you missed it - that slump is caused by deficit spending. Now in case
> you missed it - there's a Democrat congress approving all that
> spending.

To be fair, the Repubs also spent like crazy. However, when the GNP and
other indices were showing strong growth/performance, the media completely
and totally ignored it. Now that a perfectly normal (and inevitable)
slowdown cycle has arrived, it's 24/7 DOOM & GLOOM. Given the documented
bias of both the mainstream media and most of cable news and blogosphere,
it's hardly surprising.

>>> record high home ownership (esp. among minorities),
>>
>> And record personal bankrupcies and homeforeclosures.
>
> What was the alternative John?
>
>>> low inflation,
>>
>> True that.
>
> That must have hurt to agree with.
>
>>> low unemployment (below the averages of the 60s,
>>> 70s, 80s and 90s),
>>
>> Due to job seekers giving up.
>
> Then you DO have a reference for that statement?

MSNBC! LOL

[Mike Jacoubowsky]

> Record slump in growth of real income for most Americans.
|
| There most certainly is something in what you say - however, in case you
| missed it - that slump is caused by deficit spending. Now in case you
missed
| it - there's a Democrat congress approving all that spending.

Perhaps you've missed the news the last few years? We could have bought a
country fair & square (as we used to back in the day... it wouldn't exactly
be a banana republic though... maybe dates & figs?) for a whole lot less
money than we've spent trying to mold it. That wasn't a democrat or
republican thing even. That was just one rogue guy with the wrong advisors
who really should have listened to his Dad.

At least Johnson had the "Great Society" which he'd hoped, incorrectly, to
be his legacy. The present administration will be blamed for inflation,
devaluation of the dollar, and an ongoing pacification that's already gone
on far longer than anticipated by even the scariest scenarios at the time.

| >> low unemployment (below the averages of the 60s,
| >>70s, 80s and 90s),
| >
| > Due to job seekers giving up.
|
| Then you DO have a reference for that statement?

Everybody plays with statistics. That's why you want to avoid something more
tangible when you're in office. Makes it a lot easier to manipulate things
and get away with it.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com


"Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote in message
news:3vednSMUBb1VSdLVnZ2dnUVZ_jmdnZ2d@earthlink.co m...
| "John Forrest Tomlinson" <usenetremove@jt10000.com> wrote in message
| news:fp7v4451qj9rrgk04p6o1g7eduvdtiu9to@4ax.com...
| > On Tue, 10 Jun 2008 18:34:24 -0700, "Bill Sornson" <askme@ask.me>
| > wrote:
| >
| >> record number of consecutive quarters of
| >>economic growth
| >
| > Record slump in growth of real income for most Americans.
|
| There most certainly is something in what you say - however, in case you
| missed it - that slump is caused by deficit spending. Now in case you
missed
| it - there's a Democrat congress approving all that spending.
|
| >>record high home ownership (esp. among minorities),
| >
| > And record personal bankrupcies and homeforeclosures.
|
| What was the alternative John?
|
| >> low inflation,
| >
| > True that.
|
| That must have hurt to agree with.
|
| >> low unemployment (below the averages of the 60s,
| >>70s, 80s and 90s),
| >
| > Due to job seekers giving up.
|
| Then you DO have a reference for that statement?
|

[Tom Kunich]

"Bill Sornson" <askme@ask.me> wrote in message
news:484fe39b$0$12940$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
> Tom Kunich wrote:
>> "John Forrest Tomlinson" <usenetremove@jt10000.com> wrote in message
>> news:fp7v4451qj9rrgk04p6o1g7eduvdtiu9to@4ax.com...
>>> On Tue, 10 Jun 2008 18:34:24 -0700, "Bill Sornson" <askme@ask.me>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> record number of consecutive quarters of
>>>> economic growth
>>>
>>> Record slump in growth of real income for most Americans.
>>
>> There most certainly is something in what you say - however, in case
>> you missed it - that slump is caused by deficit spending. Now in case
>> you missed it - there's a Democrat congress approving all that
>> spending.
>
> To be fair, the Repubs also spent like crazy. However, when the GNP and
> other indices were showing strong growth/performance, the media completely
> and totally ignored it. Now that a perfectly normal (and inevitable)
> slowdown cycle has arrived, it's 24/7 DOOM & GLOOM. Given the documented
> bias of both the mainstream media and most of cable news and blogosphere,
> it's hardly surprising.

I'm most certainly NOT defending the disgraceful actions of the Republicans
and their spending sprees which made teenage girls look conservative. But
nevertheless there would be no spending without Democrat controlled
Congressional approval and they more than signed up in that corner.

[Jay Beattie]

On Jun 11, 8:01*am, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
> "Bill Sornson" <as...@ask.me> wrote in message
>
> news:484fe39b$0$12940$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > Tom Kunich wrote:
> >> "John Forrest Tomlinson" <usenetrem...@jt10000.com> wrote in message
> >>news:fp7v4451qj9rrgk04p6o1g7eduvdtiu9to@4ax.com...
> >>> On Tue, 10 Jun 2008 18:34:24 -0700, "Bill Sornson" <as...@ask.me>
> >>> wrote:
>
> >>>> record number of consecutive quarters of
> >>>> economic growth
>
> >>> Record slump in growth of real income for most Americans.
>
> >> There most certainly is something in what you say - however, in case
> >> you missed it - that slump is caused by deficit spending. Now in case
> >> you missed it - there's a Democrat congress approving all that
> >> spending.
>
> > To be fair, the Repubs also spent like crazy. *However, when the GNP and
> > other indices were showing strong growth/performance, the media completely
> > and totally ignored it. *Now that a perfectly normal (and inevitable)
> > slowdown cycle has arrived, it's 24/7 DOOM & GLOOM. *Given the documented
> > bias of both the mainstream media and most of cable news and blogosphere,
> > it's hardly surprising.
>
> I'm most certainly NOT defending the disgraceful actions of the Republicans
> and their spending sprees which made teenage girls look conservative. But
> nevertheless there would be no spending without Democrat controlled
> Congressional approval and they more than signed up in that corner.- Hide quoted text -

Although both parties went to the trough in overriding the veto of the
farm bill. Neither party is immune from being bought by special
interests -- or even local interests. In Oregon, the farm bill means
that payments will continue to depressed logging counties, and salmon
fisherment will get disaster relief. I like to see these people make
it economically, but really, at some point people have to pack up and
leave an area or an industry. And I see no reason for paying money to
farmers who are making record profits. --- Jay Beattie.

[Mike Jacoubowsky]

"Frank Krygowski" <frkrygow@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:56dcf3df-194f-44b1-9b20-8a5408e2b4e3@z66g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
| On Jun 10, 9:28 pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <Mi...@ChainReaction.com>
| wrote:
| > [Obama is
| > the most-gifted speaker we've seen in quite some time, and, in DC, style
| > *does* matter and *does* get things done. Substance is debated
endlessly.
| > But gifted speakers can motivate people and draw them together.
|
| Well, I'd feel a lot better about him if he were running for Poet
| Laureate instead of President.
|
| - Frank Krygowski

We have a system of government that's designed to minimize the amount of
damage that any one person can do. That system has been taxed and tested
mightily over the last few years, but I don't think it's failed us yet, nor
do I think it will fail us with a Poet Laureate at the helm. We swing from
left to right to left to right within certain boundaries. We will survive.
The question is, will our standard of living adapt to the new world order in
a peaceful manner, or will people want to go to great lengths to protect
what they have? The decline of the dollar is, to me, a frightening thing
that may be such an obvious leading indicator of bad things ahead that it
will, in retrospect, show that we've buried our heads in the sand rather
than try to deal with it in a substantive manner.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

[Brian Huntley]

On Jun 11, 11:31 am, Frank Krygowski <frkry...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jun 10, 9:28 pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <Mi...@ChainReaction.com>
> wrote:
>
> > [Obama is
> > the most-gifted speaker we've seen in quite some time, and, in DC, style
> > *does* matter and *does* get things done. Substance is debated endlessly.
> > But gifted speakers can motivate people and draw them together.
>
> Well, I'd feel a lot better about him if he were running for Poet
> Laureate instead of President.

One of your poet laureates wrote "Deliverance." They're a tricky
bunch.

[Tom Kunich]

"Frank Krygowski" <frkrygow@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:ceecb0d4-9b77-4515-97ad-9ecd1b598e09@2g2000hsn.googlegroups.com...
>
> BTW, I watch very little TV, but I try to never miss David Letterman's
> "Great Moments in Presidential Speeches." It 'stars" George W. Bush,
> with actual footage of bumbling, inarticulate, nonsensical speech.
> It's invariably hilarious.

The scary part about Obama is that he isn't bumbling - he is a complete and
utter puppet of someone and when he isn't reading speeches he demonstrates
that he is really stupid and not simply inarticulate.

[John Forrest Tomlinson]

On Wed, 11 Jun 2008 08:57:01 -0700, "Mike Jacoubowsky"
<mikej1@ix.netcom.com> wrote:

>That was just one rogue guy with the wrong advisors
>who really should have listened to his Dad.

All the congresspeople who rolled over to the lies in the first couple
of years bear a little responsiblity. The Republicans and other
people who are to this day trying to cover up the lies bear a lot of
responsiblity as well.

[Tom Kunich]

"Mike Jacoubowsky" <mikej1@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:hBS3k.3427$L_.1776@flpi150.ffdc.sbc.com...
>
> Perhaps you've missed the news the last few years? We could have bought a
> country fair & square (as we used to back in the day... it wouldn't
> exactly
> be a banana republic though... maybe dates & figs?) for a whole lot less
> money than we've spent trying to mold it. That wasn't a democrat or
> republican thing even. That was just one rogue guy with the wrong advisors
> who really should have listened to his Dad.

I suggest that you're entirely incorrect in the main point - that we
shouldn't be in Iraq. I think that within 20 years Bush will be hailed for
his actions in overview while not in detail. Placing a working democracy in
the middle of all of those strongman ruled countries will be seen as a
turning point in the middle east.

> At least Johnson had the "Great Society" which he'd hoped, incorrectly, to
> be his legacy. The present administration will be blamed for inflation,
> devaluation of the dollar, and an ongoing pacification that's already gone
> on far longer than anticipated by even the scariest scenarios at the time.

> | > Due to job seekers giving up.
> |
> | Then you DO have a reference for that statement?
>
> Everybody plays with statistics. That's why you want to avoid something
> more
> tangible when you're in office. Makes it a lot easier to manipulate things
> and get away with it.

The leftists simply lie about the employment rates which have been almost
unbelievably good. Note: if you want to see them even better, watch what
happens in the Midwest if coal-to-fuel programs get going.

[Tom Kunich]

"Ron Ruff" <rruffrruff@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:f54daf10-229d-4a40-a4dc-09c5d227212c@m73g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
On Jun 10, 11:04 pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
> > "Ron Ruff" <rruffrr...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > > And being foreclosed on at record rates!... not exactly "ownership" in
> > > any sense... and personal debt is far higher than ever in history.
> >
> > So your position is that it is bad to own your own home?
>
> My position is that the period of "high ownership" was due to insane
> and unregulated lending policy.

Then by all means supply some sort of documentation to back that up. I did
see some excesses but the homes in this area in which I've talked to
representatives didn't show "insane and unregulated lending policy" as the
reasons they were foreclosed on. In many cases people had gotten so fed up
with California politics they moved back east from whence they came in the
first place.

> The banks were not responsible for the money they lent, so
> they didn't care if the borrower could pay it back.

Look, if you've NEVER worked with lending institutions I suggest that you
simply don't repeat ignorant rants you've gotten from others who don't
understand what happened either.

> I can remember the days when you needed to put down 20%, and
> your payments could not exceed 30% of your gross.

By all means explain how that could possibly work in an area where a home
costs $600,000 for THE AVERAGE HOME.

> > > The low unemployment rates are due to the fact that there are no more
> > > unions and after your 6 months of unemployment benefits you are
> > > officially no longer unemployed.
> >
> > Wrong. You don't disappear from the roles until over a year. We actually
> > have had a long period of very low unemployment.
>
> "Benefits can be paid for a maximum of 26 weeks in most States."
> http://www.workforcesecurity.doleta.gov/unemploy/uifactsheet.asp

Why are you referencing that? That is NOT information pertaining to when you
are dropped from the unemployment rolls. That is merely the time that you
can NORMALLY draw unemployment. And in case you missed it - that is likely
to be extended very soon.

[Tom Kunich]

"Mike Jacoubowsky" <mikej1@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:IGS3k.3430$L_.1033@flpi150.ffdc.sbc.com...
> We have a system of government that's designed to minimize the amount of
> damage that any one person can do.

Luckily that's true. At this point however we're sort of in trouble - just
like we should never have had a Republican President with a Republican
controlled house and senate, we shouldn't have a Democrat President with
Democrat controlled house and senate. It is absolutely asking for trouble.

On the other hand, it would be interesting to see what happens if Obama gets
elected and tries to turn this country into the Communist capital as his
backer Soros and Moveon.org really want.

[Ron Ruff]

Tom Kunich wrote:
> "Ron Ruff" <rruffrruff@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > I can remember the days when you needed to put down 20%, and
> > your payments could not exceed 30% of your gross.
>
> By all means explain how that could possibly work in an area where a home
> costs $600,000 for THE AVERAGE HOME.

How do you think the price of houses got so high? This doesn't "just
happen"! That $600k house probably cost ~$150k to build... the rest is
specualtion and land appreciation... which can only increase in
proportion to the number of people who can afford it... or in recent
history, you don't even have to afford it. The price of real estate
would be much lower if credit was not so loose... and all the people
wanting to buy a house to *live in* would be better off.

[Frank Krygowski]

On Jun 11, 12:55 pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
> "Ron Ruff" <rruffrr...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> > I can remember the days when you needed to put down 20%, and
> > your payments could not exceed 30% of your gross.
>
> By all means explain how that could possibly work in an area where a home
> costs $600,000 for THE AVERAGE HOME.

Come on, Tom! If those rules were still in effect, those homes prices
wouldn't be inflated to $600,000 on average. It's elementary supply
and demand theory.

- Frank Krygowski

[Bill Sornson]

Tom Kunich wrote:
> "Mike Jacoubowsky" <mikej1@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
> news:hBS3k.3427$L_.1776@flpi150.ffdc.sbc.com...
>>
>> Perhaps you've missed the news the last few years? We could have
>> bought a country fair & square (as we used to back in the day... it
>> wouldn't exactly
>> be a banana republic though... maybe dates & figs?) for a whole lot
>> less money than we've spent trying to mold it. That wasn't a
>> democrat or republican thing even. That was just one rogue guy with
>> the wrong advisors who really should have listened to his Dad.
>
> I suggest that you're entirely incorrect in the main point - that we
> shouldn't be in Iraq. I think that within 20 years Bush will be
> hailed for his actions in overview while not in detail. Placing a
> working democracy in the middle of all of those strongman ruled
> countries will be seen as a turning point in the middle east.

Unless Obama wins and completely undoes all the success in, oh, about 4
months.

>> At least Johnson had the "Great Society" which he'd hoped,
>> incorrectly, to be his legacy. The present administration will be
>> blamed for inflation, devaluation of the dollar, and an ongoing
>> pacification that's already gone on far longer than anticipated by
>> even the scariest scenarios at the time.
>
>>>> Due to job seekers giving up.
>>>
>>> Then you DO have a reference for that statement?
>>
>> Everybody plays with statistics. That's why you want to avoid
>> something more
>> tangible when you're in office. Makes it a lot easier to manipulate
>> things and get away with it.
>
> The leftists simply lie about the employment rates which have been
> almost unbelievably good. Note: if you want to see them even better,
> watch what happens in the Midwest if coal-to-fuel programs get going.

Won't happen until after the election...and even then, not with a Republican
in office.

[Bill Sornson]

Tom Kunich wrote:
> "Frank Krygowski" <frkrygow@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:ceecb0d4-9b77-4515-97ad-9ecd1b598e09@2g2000hsn.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> BTW, I watch very little TV, but I try to never miss David
>> Letterman's "Great Moments in Presidential Speeches." It 'stars"
>> George W. Bush, with actual footage of bumbling, inarticulate,
>> nonsensical speech. It's invariably hilarious.
>
> The scary part about Obama is that he isn't bumbling - he is a
> complete and utter puppet of someone and when he isn't reading
> speeches he demonstrates that he is really stupid and not simply
> inarticulate.

Wonder when Letterman will put together a highlight reel of Obama stammering
and stumbling?!?

Oh, wait. Doesn't fit the template.

Never mind.

[Ozark Bicycle]

On Jun 11, 12:02 pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
> "Frank Krygowski" <frkry...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:ceecb0d4-9b77-4515-97ad-9ecd1b598e09@2g2000hsn.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > BTW, I watch very little TV, but I try to never miss David Letterman's
> > "Great Moments in Presidential Speeches." It 'stars" George W. Bush,
> > with actual footage of bumbling, inarticulate, nonsensical speech.
> > It's invariably hilarious.
>
> The scary part about Obama is that he isn't bumbling - he is a complete and
> utter puppet of someone and when he isn't reading speeches he demonstrates
> that he is really stupid and not simply inarticulate.

Are you saying that Obama is the Dem version of Ronnie Raygun? ;-)

[andresmuro@aol.com]

On Jun 11, 11:05 am, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
> "Mike Jacoubowsky" <mik...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
>
> news:IGS3k.3430$L_.1033@flpi150.ffdc.sbc.com...
>
> > We have a system of government that's designed to minimize the amount of
> > damage that any one person can do.
>
> Luckily that's true. At this point however we're sort of in trouble - just
> like we should never have had a Republican President with a Republican
> controlled house and senate, we shouldn't have a Democrat President with
> Democrat controlled house and senate. It is absolutely asking for trouble.
>
> On the other hand, it would be interesting to see what happens if Obama gets
> elected and tries to turn this country into the Communist capital as his
> backer Soros and Moveon.org really want.

It is the first time I hear that Soros and Move on are communists. Can
you send me the reference? I doubt that Soros has any sympathy for
Marxism and never heard any reference about Marxism by move-on. If
your definition is that anyone critical of GWB is a communist, then
70% of the US falls under that definition. However, that is not the
acceptable definition. BTW, Marxists, neoMarxists and other left wing
groups and entities do not consider Soros, move-on or Obama to
represent their ideology or interests. I consider myself a socialist,
and don't know of any position that Obama has taken that represents my
ideology or way of thinking. He is, very articulate and well educated
and obviously intelligent. However, I haven't heard a single thing
that would lead me to believe that he is a socialist of any sort.

[Tom Kunich]

"Bill Sornson" <askme@ask.me> wrote in message
news:48500cbe$0$7728$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
> Tom Kunich wrote:
>>
>> watch what happens in the Midwest if coal-to-fuel programs get going.
>
> Won't happen until after the election...and even then, not with a
> Republican in office.

Most of those companies lining up are WELL funded and they're are quite a
few of them putting together several different kinds of programs. GE is
behind one very nice system of converting coal almost directly to gas.

The government hasn't any real say in this and the finances of
coal-to-liquid-fuel are now so good with the dumb-ass Arabs cutting their
own throats that we're likely to see a major shift in sourcing in the not
very distant future.

[Ron Ruff]

On Jun 11, 11:36*am, "Bill Sornson" <as...@ask.me> wrote:
> Tom Kunich wrote:
> > The scary part about Obama is that he isn't bumbling - he is a
> > complete and utter puppet of someone and when he isn't reading
> > speeches he demonstrates that he is really stupid and not simply
> > inarticulate.

Please...!... Have you paid any attention W in the last 8 years? The
guy who needs to have Cheney with him at the 9/11 hearings and debates
with a "wire"? And who is Obama a puppet of?

> Wonder when Letterman will put together a highlight reel of Obama stammering
> and stumbling?!?
>
> Oh, wait. *Doesn't fit the template.

I'll wait for a reel of him peeing his pants and staring into space
for 10 minutes if/when the country is under attack...

[Jay Beattie]

On Jun 11, 10:38*am, "andresm...@aol.com" <andresm...@aol.com> wrote:
> On Jun 11, 11:05 am, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
>
> > "Mike Jacoubowsky" <mik...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
>
> >news:IGS3k.3430$L_.1033@flpi150.ffdc.sbc.com...
>
> > > We have a system of government that's designed to minimize the amount of
> > > damage that any one person can do.
>
> > Luckily that's true. At this point however we're sort of in trouble - just
> > like we should never have had a Republican President with a Republican
> > controlled house and senate, we shouldn't have a Democrat President with
> > Democrat controlled house and senate. It is absolutely asking for trouble.
>
> > On the other hand, it would be interesting to see what happens if Obama gets
> > elected and tries to turn this country into the Communist capital as his
> > backer Soros and Moveon.org really want.
>
> It is the first time I hear that Soros and Move on are communists. Can
> you send me the reference? I doubt that Soros has any sympathy for
> Marxism and never heard any reference about Marxism by move-on. If
> your definition is that anyone critical of GWB is a communist, then
> 70% of the US falls under that definition. However, that is not the
> acceptable definition. BTW, Marxists, neoMarxists and other left wing
> groups and entities do not consider Soros, move-on or Obama to
> represent their ideology or interests. I consider myself a socialist,
> and don't know of any position that Obama has taken that represents my
> ideology or way of thinking. He is, very articulate and well educated
> and obviously intelligent. However, I haven't heard a single thing
> that would lead me to believe that he is a socialist of any sort.

In February of this year, 81% of the US was communist. I love the way
TK throws around the communist label. It gives me fond memories of
the duck and cover days. I don't fear commi attack because they would
not want to damage their valuable collateral. I think it is more
likely that we will see a commi repo action -- sort of like the French
and Mexico. We will see armed debt collectors storming the treasury
and till-tapping the IRS. -- Jay Beattie.

[Bill Sornson]

Tom Kunich wrote:
> "Bill Sornson" <askme@ask.me> wrote in message
> news:48500cbe$0$7728$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>> Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>
>>> watch what happens in the Midwest if coal-to-fuel programs get
>>> going.
>>
>> Won't happen until after the election...and even then, not with a
>> Republican in office.
>
> Most of those companies lining up are WELL funded and they're are
> quite a few of them putting together several different kinds of
> programs. GE is behind one very nice system of converting coal almost
> directly to gas.

But if McCain is President, then the Dems will legislatively block anything
that will help solve the energy problem and/or improve the economy.

Just watch.

> The government hasn't any real say in this and the finances of
> coal-to-liquid-fuel are now so good with the dumb-ass Arabs cutting
> their own throats that we're likely to see a major shift in sourcing
> in the not very distant future.

Unless they pass laws to prevent it. Won't surprise me a bit.

[Tom Kunich]

"Ron Ruff" <rruffrruff@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:4eddb9fc-68e4-4be7-8feb-9e02229dbcab@26g2000hsk.googlegroups.com...
>
> And who is Obama a puppet of?

Ain't that something we all want to know?

http://www.opticstalk.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=11422&PN=1

"My School In Indonesia Was Christian" - NOT EXACTLY,

you were registered as Muslim there and got in trouble in Koranic Studies
for making faces (check your own book).

February 28, 2008. Kristoff from the New York Times a year ago: Mr. Obama
recalled the opening lines of the Arabic call to prayer, reciting them from
memory with a first-rate accent. In a remark that seemed delightfully
uncalculated (it'll give Alabama voters heart attacks), Mr. Obama described
the call to prayer as 'one of the prettiest sounds on Earth at sunset.'
This is just one example of what Pamela is talking about when she says
'Obama's narrative is being altered, enhanced and manipulated to whitewash
troubling facts.'

[A Muzi]

Jay Beattie wrote:
> In February of this year, 81% of the US was communist.

Yeah, I knew that from watching primary election results. It's nice to
see someone else citing it.
--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

[Ron Ruff]

On Jun 11, 2:08*pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
> "Ron Ruff" <rruffrr...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > And who is Obama a puppet of?
>
> Ain't that something we all want to know?
>
> http://www.opticstalk.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=11422&PN=1
>
> "My School In Indonesia Was Christian" - NOT EXACTLY,
>
> you were registered as Muslim there and got in trouble in Koranic Studies
> for making faces (check your own book).
>
> February 28, 2008. *Kristoff from the New York Times a year ago: *Mr. Obama
> recalled the opening lines of the Arabic call to prayer, reciting them from
> memory with a first-rate accent. In a remark that seemed delightfully
> uncalculated (it'll give Alabama voters heart attacks), Mr. Obama described
> the call to prayer as 'one of the prettiest sounds on Earth at sunset.'
> This is just one example of what Pamela is talking about when she says
> 'Obama's narrative is being altered, enhanced and manipulated to whitewash
> troubling facts.'

??? He is a puppet of... Muslims?! Now that is a powerful group in the
US for sure! This is just plain crazy Tom... there is no way you could
be stupid enough to believe that... is there? Does BS like this
actually get traction on idiot talk show rants?

[Tim McNamara]

In article <PpGdnfA-ZsdLrc3VnZ2dnUVZ_qXinZ2d@earthlink.com>,
"Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:

> "Ron Ruff" <rruffrruff@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:4eddb9fc-68e4-4be7-8feb-9e02229dbcab@26g2000hsk.googlegroups.com.
> ..
> >
> > And who is Obama a puppet of?
>
> Ain't that something we all want to know?
>
> http://www.opticstalk.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=11422&PN=1
>
> "My School In Indonesia Was Christian" - NOT EXACTLY,
>
> you were registered as Muslim there and got in trouble in Koranic
> Studies for making faces (check your own book).

Who the **** cares? Every religion is equally offensive and based on
the same level of malarkey (with the possible exception of Buddhism).

> February 28, 2008. Kristoff from the New York Times a year ago: Mr.
> Obama recalled the opening lines of the Arabic call to prayer,
> reciting them from memory with a first-rate accent. In a remark that
> seemed delightfully uncalculated (it'll give Alabama voters heart
> attacks), Mr. Obama described the call to prayer as 'one of the
> prettiest sounds on Earth at sunset.'

Most anyone who lived in that part of the world would be able to do the
same.

> This is just one example of what Pamela is talking about when she
> says 'Obama's narrative is being altered, enhanced and manipulated to
> whitewash troubling facts.'

If this is where you get your "facts," then drugs are superfluous.

[John Forrest Tomlinson]

On Wed, 11 Jun 2008 13:54:43 -0700 (PDT), Ron Ruff
<rruffrruff@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Jun 11, 2:08*pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
>> "Ron Ruff" <rruffrr...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> > And who is Obama a puppet of?
>>
>> Ain't that something we all want to know?
>>
>> http://www.opticstalk.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=11422&PN=1
>>
>> "My School In Indonesia Was Christian" - NOT EXACTLY,
>>
>> you were registered as Muslim there and got in trouble in Koranic Studies
>> for making faces (check your own book).
>>
>> February 28, 2008. *Kristoff from the New York Times a year ago: *Mr. Obama
>> recalled the opening lines of the Arabic call to prayer, reciting them from
>> memory with a first-rate accent. In a remark that seemed delightfully
>> uncalculated (it'll give Alabama voters heart attacks), Mr. Obama described
>> the call to prayer as 'one of the prettiest sounds on Earth at sunset.'
>> This is just one example of what Pamela is talking about when she says
>> 'Obama's narrative is being altered, enhanced and manipulated to whitewash
>> troubling facts.'
>
>??? He is a puppet of... Muslims?! Now that is a powerful group in the
>US for sure! This is just plain crazy Tom... there is no way you could
>be stupid enough to believe that... is there?

Yes, he does. It's sad.

>Does BS like this
>actually get traction on idiot talk show rants?

Yes it does. It's scary.

[Tom Kunich]

"Ron Ruff" <rruffrruff@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:ab116386-d4fe-4c00-9857-d03fe8087512@e53g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
>
> ??? He is a puppet of... Muslims?!

If you're not going to be serious there's no point in discussing it. Obama
plainly doesn't have the intelligence himself to be a President. And the
people he hangs around with aren't trustworthy of themselves. What's more,
he obviously likes to distort or even blatantly lie about his past. Mind
you, that's not an uncommon trait, but not acceptable in Presidents unless
there are some serious interest involved.

[Tim McNamara]

In article <RsidnZPWWNjHos3VnZ2dnUVZ_qLinZ2d@earthlink.com>,
"Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:

> "Ron Ruff" <rruffrruff@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:ab116386-d4fe-4c00-9857-d03fe8087512@e53g2000hsa.googlegroups.com
> ...
> >
> > ??? He is a puppet of... Muslims?!
>
> If you're not going to be serious there's no point in discussing it.
> Obama plainly doesn't have the intelligence himself to be a
> President. And the people he hangs around with aren't trustworthy of
> themselves. What's more, he obviously likes to distort or even
> blatantly lie about his past. Mind you, that's not an uncommon trait,
> but not acceptable in Presidents unless there are some serious
> interest involved.

So it's acceptable in George W. Bush and **** Cheney?

[Ron Ruff]

On Jun 11, 3:10*pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
> If you're not going to be serious there's no point in discussing it. Obama
> plainly doesn't have the intelligence himself to be a President.

Come on Tom... I'll put Obama's IQ up against any any pres in recent
history... and I'd wager it's at least 50 points above Ws.

> And the
> people he hangs around with aren't trustworthy of themselves. What's more,
> he obviously likes to distort or even blatantly lie about his past.

Just the real facts man... not the BS you hear on right wing rant
shows...

[Tom Kunich]

"Frank Krygowski" <frkrygow@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:ac570e24-1ecf-4410-a251-40498b268b5c@e39g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> On Jun 11, 12:55 pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
>> "Ron Ruff" <rruffrr...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>
>> > I can remember the days when you needed to put down 20%, and
>> > your payments could not exceed 30% of your gross.
>>
>> By all means explain how that could possibly work in an area where a home
>> costs $600,000 for THE AVERAGE HOME.
>
> Come on, Tom! If those rules were still in effect, those homes prices
> wouldn't be inflated to $600,000 on average. It's elementary supply
> and demand theory.

That was my point Frank. Everyone wants to own their own home. And when the
prices for houses went above $350K it wasn't possible for the AVERAGE worker
to put together a 20% downpayment. Something had to give and what gave was
that lending institutions started requiring 10% DP and started pushing all
sorts of paper to make the incomes of the parties involved look high enough
to afford a home.

And let's be truthful about this - this was a boon for 95% of new home
buyers who are now homeowners and are still making house payments.

[Tom Kunich]

"Luke" <lucasiragusa@rogers.com> wrote in message
news:110620081718485528%lucasiragusa@rogers.com...
> In article <1uB3k.12110$co7.10416@nlpi066.nbdc.sbc.com>, Mike
> Jacoubowsky <MikeJ@ChainReaction.com> wrote:
>
>> > http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2008/06/the-obama-on-a.html
>> >
>> What is the issue here? Looks like a normal guy out riding a bike. The
>> only
>> thing I notice is that his tires haven't been inflated for a couple of
>> months. Don't the secret service folk know how to inflate a tire?
>
> No dog this fight. I'd wager what you're seeing is the American
> penchant of obsessing about and/or politicizing every trivial banality
> of those unfortunate enough to be afflicted with a public profile.

I expect to some extent. But I think that the real thing here is just
throwing a good natured dig at Obama who looks a real nerd in that photo.

[Ron Ruff]

Tom Kunich wrote:
> That was my point Frank. Everyone wants to own their own home. And when the
> prices for houses went above $350K it wasn't possible for the AVERAGE worker
> to put together a 20% downpayment. Something had to give and what gave was
> that lending institutions started requiring 10% DP and started pushing all
> sorts of paper to make the incomes of the parties involved look high enough
> to afford a home.
>
> And let's be truthful about this - this was a boon for 95% of new home
> buyers who are now homeowners and are still making house payments.

Stop the insanity! Do you really think that lending institutions did
this as some kind of *service* to the common man?! Prices for
realestate only go up because people are *able* to get a loan for
it... and they are only able to get a loan because lending
institutions are extremely lax at determining whether or not they can
pay it back... and the lending institutions are lax because they know
they will suffer no loss if the buyer can't pay. Basically it is
fraud... people should be going to jail. The taxpayers pay instead
(more deficit spending). A few people get really rich. This is
deregulated finance for you...

Let's be truthful... there has been an insane debt/borrowing frenzy
lately, that has been the *only* reason why our economy didn't tank
years ago. Now we are screwed. We would have been much better off it
it had never happened. A lot more of those "new homebuyers" will stop
making payments... just wait a little while...

[Bill Sornson]

Tom Kunich wrote:

> ... But I think that the real thing here is just
> throwing a good natured dig at Obama who looks a real nerd in that
> photo.

Careful, Tom! That might cause a HUGE STIR!!! ROTFL

[Eric Vey]

Tom Kunich wrote:
> "Luke" <lucasiragusa@rogers.com> wrote in message
> news:110620081718485528%lucasiragusa@rogers.com...
>> In article <1uB3k.12110$co7.10416@nlpi066.nbdc.sbc.com>, Mike
>> Jacoubowsky <MikeJ@ChainReaction.com> wrote:
>>
>>> > http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2008/06/the-obama-on-a.html
>>> >
>>> What is the issue here? Looks like a normal guy out riding a bike.
>>> The only
>>> thing I notice is that his tires haven't been inflated for a couple of
>>> months. Don't the secret service folk know how to inflate a tire?
>>
>> No dog this fight. I'd wager what you're seeing is the American
>> penchant of obsessing about and/or politicizing every trivial banality
>> of those unfortunate enough to be afflicted with a public profile.
>
> I expect to some extent. But I think that the real thing here is just
> throwing a good natured dig at Obama who looks a real nerd in that photo.
>

Sure. And the Swiftboat people were very good natured in their digs, too.

[Tom Kunich]

"Ozark Bicycle" <bicycleatelier@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote in message
news:bc10315b-1ce4-4df8-af99-fb88e048af51@34g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>
> Are you saying that Obama is the Dem version of Ronnie Raygun?

My guess is that McCain vs. Obama will be very close MOSTLY because people
will vote for the opposite candidate in order to prevent their own stupid
candidate from getting into office.

If Obama gets into office I fully intend to remind you of the stuff you
wrote here after he has shown his stripes.

[Tom Kunich]

"Tim McNamara" <timmcn@bitstream.net> wrote in message
news:timmcn-A1D464.17152811062008@news.iphouse.com...
> In article <RsidnZPWWNjHos3VnZ2dnUVZ_qLinZ2d@earthlink.com>,
> "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
>
>> "Ron Ruff" <rruffrruff@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:ab116386-d4fe-4c00-9857-d03fe8087512@e53g2000hsa.googlegroups.com
>> ...
>> >
>> > ??? He is a puppet of... Muslims?!
>>
>> If you're not going to be serious there's no point in discussing it.
>> Obama plainly doesn't have the intelligence himself to be a
>> President. And the people he hangs around with aren't trustworthy of
>> themselves. What's more, he obviously likes to distort or even
>> blatantly lie about his past. Mind you, that's not an uncommon trait,
>> but not acceptable in Presidents unless there are some serious
>> interest involved.
>
> So it's acceptable in George W. Bush and **** Cheney?

Hey, I'm judging Obama by his own words in public. By all means explain to
us what you know about **** Cheney.

[Eric Vey]

Tom Kunich wrote:

>
> Hey, I'm judging Obama by his own words in public. By all means explain
> to us what you know about **** Cheney.

I have a better idea. Why don't you tell us what you know about Cheney?
What do you think he meant when he said the war was in it's last throes?

[Tom Kunich]

"Tim McNamara" <timmcn@bitstream.net> wrote in message
news:timmcn-5A35E3.17242011062008@news.iphouse.com...
> In article
> <7195742d-d359-494e-8d91-1ce7277d8dc6@m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com>,
> Ron Ruff <rruffrruff@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> On Jun 10, 7:34 pm, "Bill Sornson" <as...@ask.me> wrote:
>> > SMS wrote:
>> > > Undoing eight years of W is going to be a daunting task for
>> > > whoever gets elected.
>> >
>> > Yeah, no attacks in nearly 8 years
>>
>> This is hilarious! Where do you get this stuff?
>>
>> Nearly 7 years I guess... but how many years did we go before that
>> without any attacks?
>
> Hey, man, the War of Terror is like tiger repellant I just bought. I
> look around, no tigers, stuff must work great! The War of Terror and
> the Trillion Dollar Tax Cut and unbridled irresponsible pork barrel
> spending 2000-2006 resulting in expansion of the national debt to
> $9,413,165,479,470.23 was worth it. We're safe as houses now.

http://www.time.com/time/covers/1101020812/story.html
"Berger attended only one of the briefings-the session that dealt with the
threat posed to the U.S. by international terrorism, and especially by
al-Qaeda. "I'm coming to this briefing," he says he told Rice, "to
underscore how important I think this subject is." Later, alone in his
office with Rice, Berger says he told her, "I believe that the Bush
Administration will spend more time on terrorism generally, and on al-Qaeda
specifically, than any other subject."

http://www.9-11commission.gov/staff_statements/911_TerrFin_Ch6.pdf
"Contrary to a common misconception, the FBI did not ignore terrorist
financing before 9/11. The intelligence side of the FBI gathered extensive
information on terrorist fundraising in the United States, although the
Bureau lacked any strategy for disrupting the activity. In various field
offices around the country, street agents actively investigated groups and
individuals, including GRF and BIF, suspected of raising funds for al Qaeda
or other extremist groups. Working in the face of many obstacles, including
what agents believed to be a dysfunctional FISA (Foreign Intelligence
Surveillance Act) process, these agents aggressively gathered information
and tried to coordinate with other field offices, the intelligence
community, and even foreign governments."

By all means tell me - do you want an all-powerful government capable of
virtually anything? Or do you want one relatively tightly controlled but one
that has a great deal of trouble responding to new dangers?

[Eric Vey]

Tom Kunich wrote:
> "Ozark Bicycle" <bicycleatelier@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote in
> message
> news:bc10315b-1ce4-4df8-af99-fb88e048af51@34g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> Are you saying that Obama is the Dem version of Ronnie Raygun?
>
> My guess is that McCain vs. Obama will be very close MOSTLY because
> people will vote for the opposite candidate in order to prevent their
> own stupid candidate from getting into office.
>
> If Obama gets into office I fully intend to remind you of the stuff you
> wrote here after he has shown his stripes.
>

Why don't you be honest for a change? It will be close because all the
ex-Wallace voters joined the Republican party.

[Ozark Bicycle]

On Jun 11, 5:27 pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
> "Ozark Bicycle" <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote in message
>
> news:bc10315b-1ce4-4df8-af99-fb88e048af51@34g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>
<on Kunichs assertion that Obama is a puppet and a bumbling
incompetent>
>
>
> > Are you saying that Obama is the Dem version of Ronnie Raygun?
>
<snip>
>
> If Obama gets into office I fully intend to remind you of the stuff you
> wrote here after he has shown his stripes.

Be sure to let me know if Obama:

*falls asleep in staff meetings and cabinet meetings

*runs the deficit through the roof

*can't tell the difference between an ex-president and a ball player

*allows his wife to hire astrologers to help shape policy

*presides over a constitution-bending escapade in the fashion of "Iran-
Contra"

[Ron Ruff]

On Jun 11, 4:43*pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
> By all means tell me - do you want an all-powerful government capable of
> virtually anything? Or do you want one relatively tightly controlled but one
> that has a great deal of trouble responding to new dangers?

It is a stupid question... as though it is one or the other. What we
have now is a government that lies, steals, and screws the public in
the rear... involves our country in foreign wars... for what reason
again?... and totally drops the ball when we were attacked on 9/11.
I'll take pretty much anything over that.

[Eric Vey]

Bill Sornson wrote:
> Tom Kunich wrote:
>
>> ... But I think that the real thing here is just
>> throwing a good natured dig at Obama who looks a real nerd in that
>> photo.
>
> Careful, Tom! That might cause a HUGE STIR!!! ROTFL
>
>
Don't blame me for being ahead of the curve.

http://www.blackvoices.com/blogs/2008/06/11/obama-rides-a-bike-you-dont-have-to-stare/
"If McCain gets elected we'll ALL be riding bikes because we won't be
able to afford gas." ...

http://www.huliq.com/61589/obama-rides-his-bike-chicago-coolness-plummets
Something tells me he hasn’t had many opportunities to be a regular
citizen, doing every day things. He’s just out of practice and isn’t
likely to hone those skills any time soon. Does this look like the next
leader of the free world to you?


http://www.queerty.com/obama-loses-tabloid-vote-20080611/
If there’s one thing in which Us Weekly shouldn’t be involved, it’s
politics.

So, naturally, the magazine has decided to judge the candidates based on
their fashion — because the state of the country doesn’t matter if
Barack Obama and John McCain aren’t looking good.

http://www.jaunted.com/story/2008/6/10/2338/57493/travel/Cycling+Travel:+Obama+Scorns+Your+Spandex
We chuckled when the site Barack Obama Is Your New Bicycle poked fun at
the Democratic senator's ascribed powers. But fashionistas found the
presumptive presidential candidate's choice of attire for riding a bike
this weekend downright bizarre. What? No one wants to see a politician
in bike shorts.

http://mediamatters.org/items/200806100003?f=h_latest
Fox's Griff Jenkins on Obama bike ride: "Where is he going? ... [M]aybe
to get a pocket protector for his nerd pencils"

Summary: On Live Desk, Griff Jenkins said of a recent photo of Sen.
Barack Obama taking a bicycle ride: "Where is he going? And I was
thinking, maybe to get a pocket protector for his nerd pencils. What is
that?"

http://laist.com/2008/06/09/obama_rides_a_b.php
Obama Rides a Bike, McCain Calls for 'Gas Tax Holiday'

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/06/09/politics/politico/main4162787.shtml
To understand the stylistic gulf between Barack Obama and John McCain,
first consider their cultural references. . . .

And Obama can sometimes look less than hip, touting a traditional home
life centered on children’s activities like sleepovers, bicycle rides
and dance recitals.

Google for more.
How many quotes do I have to give you before you are satisfied?

[Tom Kunich]

"Ron Ruff" <rruffrruff@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:f068efdd-d9e7-4624-869d-ea4c3d661ec2@y21g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> Tom Kunich wrote:
>> That was my point Frank. Everyone wants to own their own home. And when
>> the
>> prices for houses went above $350K it wasn't possible for the AVERAGE
>> worker
>> to put together a 20% downpayment. Something had to give and what gave
>> was
>> that lending institutions started requiring 10% DP and started pushing
>> all
>> sorts of paper to make the incomes of the parties involved look high
>> enough
>> to afford a home.
>>
>> And let's be truthful about this - this was a boon for 95% of new home
>> buyers who are now homeowners and are still making house payments.
>
> Stop the insanity! Do you really think that lending institutions did
> this as some kind of *service* to the common man?!

Look, if you don't understand "capitalism" then why are you living here? Why
don't you move to Cuba where some jackass can tell someone else what he will
and won't make.

Here's the bottom line - the BUYERS wanted that service whether or not it
worked for all of them or not. The fact is that it worked for the
overwhelming majority and there are a lot of families living in houses right
now that couldn't have owned a house but for that "service".

What's more, they ALL profited from it save some small percentage of buyers
in the last two years.

I'm not saying that there aren't problems and that regulations don't need to
be strengthened. But the fact remains that the system works in almost all
cases. We've got to work to exclude the exceptions.

> Let's be truthful... there has been an insane debt/borrowing frenzy
> lately, that has been the *