Maximum Heart Rate

[RickF]

A lot of cyclists and other endurance athletes are using heart rate monitors and target heart rate zones to guide their training. One problem that I have seen with this approach is that it is dependant upon knowing what the individual's maximum heart rate really is. Most people have not had a stress test to determine the true maximum heart rate. Instead, they rely on formulae such as "220 - age" or one of the many varients that use a baseline minus some multiplier of age. None of these methods are accurate, especially for those who do aerobic exercise regularly

I came across an interesting publication (http://faculty.css.edu/tboone2/asep/Robergs2.pdf) that looked at 43 different published methods for estimating maximum heart rate. Their conclusion was that the best method was 205.8 - 0.685 * Age, but even that method had a standard deviation of 6.4 beats per minute, a margin of error that they deemed "unacceptable". The only way to know the true maximum heart rate for an individual is to conduct a stress test on a treadmill or bicycle ergometer.

[Pugslyyy]

+1. I've had the same experience - all those estimates and rules of thumb don't work for a large part of the population.

Using their methodologies I would be right around 180 for max HR but I am more like 195.

Of course, max HR is much less relevant (from a training perspective) then what your anaerobic threshold is.

RoverDave and I have recently been talking about going down to the Human Performance Lab at Meredith and getting tested. Anybody else interested?

http://www.meredith.edu/hess/lab/endurance_testing.htm

[RickF]

I would be interested. Do you know what it costs? That was one thing I did not see on their web page.

I was tested about 25 years ago at Burroughs Wellcome Co. I was retested after about six weeks on a moderate aerobic exercise program and was amazed at how much improvement I made in such a short period of time.

One thing that was clear on the web site you linked is that low levels of exercise burn fat more efficiently than higher exercise intensity levels. That reinforces what I have been saying all along - If your goal is to reduce body fat, time spent in the saddle is more important than speed or distance.

[Pugslyyy]

http://www.meredith.edu/hess/lab/testing_specifics.htm

$175 for the full test...


Maximal Oxygen Consumption (VO2max ) measured via metabolic cart
Lactate Threshold/Training zone determined utilizing blood samples
Power or Pace training zones
Substrate utilization (Calories of fat and carbohydrate at different intensities)
Body composition analysis (% body fat) via 7-site skin-fold assessment
Estimate of resting metabolic rate
Consulting on how to use the results

[Pugslyyy]

One thing that was clear on the web site you linked is that low levels of exercise burn fat more efficiently than higher exercise intensity levels. That reinforces what I have been saying all along - If your goal is to reduce body fat, time spent in the saddle is more important than speed or distance.

http://www.active.com/Assets/Fitness/a2+migration/a2+temp/nts_fitness/SlowDown_150.jpg

Yes, but as always it is more complex than that! Everyone burns fat more efficiently at lower heart rates, and the tests will show you what your optimal heart rate is for burning fat.

However, if you want to 'get better' you have to train at a variety of different intensities. It is the only way to "pull up" the heart rate at which you burn fat most efficiently. A good rule of thumb is that 60-80% of your rides should be easy-moderate, or 10 beats below your anaerobic threshold. The rest should be higher. I'm really into tracking all this geeky heartrate stuff, so I know that so far this year I have spent 32% in Zone 2, 46% in Zone 3, and 15% in Zone 4. Oh and 0.2% in Zone 5 (the "heart about to explode" zone :) )

Last summer I was able to pull my AB up from 136 to 160 over a 15 week period. It was a huge difference for my long distance rides to be able to set my HR at 160-165 and be able to ride all day.

By the way, for those of you reading this thinking "my weight is okay so what do I care about burning fat" - the reason it is important is for those long rides. If you can draw on your body fat for energy instead of carbohydrates, you can rides easily for a long, long time.

There are a lot of good articles out there on this stuff. One of them is this one from active.com (http://www.active.com/fitness/Articles/Aerobic_base_training__Going_slower_to_get_faster. htm)

[RoverDave]

awesome stuff guys. I have been doing a lot of reading on HR training. I am in it for fat burn and over all endurance. Next month I will be getting a Garmin and will really focus in on training in the right zones.

My trainer and I are going to go through some stress tests and see where I am at just to get a better idea of (220-age) which I do know that my AT is about 190, thats when i can really feel that lactic acid.

I have been wearing my HRM and i have been keeping track. I am def. up for the test at the Meredith Sports Lab. I will probably wait till the fall when I am a good ways into my training routine. I have been consistently dropping weight and improving over all so I want a good solid base for the tests after I have been training consistently for a while. The do a group rate discount, if we can get the interest up, we should check that option out too.

[Seppo]

I'ld be interested in getting tested at Meredith's Human Performance Lab. At some point.

It would have been cool to have gotten tested when I was in college. But I don't think that lab was around back then.

Your Heart Rate is just an indicator of effort. But its my opinion that while its usefull info, there is no reason to be a slave to it.

[Pugslyyy]

Heart Rate is just an indicator of effort. But its my opinion that while its usefull info, there is no reason to be a slave to it.It all depends on what your goals are and how much you want to get out of your workouts. If you want to focus on distance or performance then there is every reason to be a slave to it.

Of course, a power meter is a much better indicator of effort.

[RickF]

Your Heart Rate is just an indicator of effort. But its my opinion that while its usefull info, there is no reason to be a slave to it.It also depends on your age, fitness level, and cardiovascular disease history. The older one is, the less fit one is, and if one has a history of cardiovascular disease (especially coronary artery disease), diabetes, or more than one cardiovascular risk factor [cigarette smoking, hypertension (BP ≥140/90 mmHg or on antihypertensive medication), low high-density lipoprotein cholesterol (HDLc - the good cholesterol <40 mg/dL; <1.03 mmol/L), family history of premature coronary heart disease (CHD in male first-degree relative <55 years; CHD in female first-degree relative <65 years), or age (men ≥45 years; women ≥55 years)], then it is more important to know the zones and train in the appropriate zones. While aerobic exercise is a good thing for everyone, overdoing it is not good for the high risk population.

One of the best indicators cardiovascular fitness is the difference between maximum heart rate and resting heart rate. The greater that difference, the better the outcome.

[mvanhorn]

I went to Meredith's Human Performance Lab several months ago and got tested. It was a very interesting and extremely worthwhile experience for me. The information that you get (there's a sample report online I think) is very valuable in understanding your current fitness, your limits, and what you need to work on. I would highly recommend the lab to anyone that's interested.

Mark

[TracyW]

I'd be interested. Working on a group discount?

[TomG]

I have found that my max is completely different depending on the excerise. Here's best to worse:

On an excerise bike, indoors, I can hold over 200 for about 20 seconds. I can cruise at 175 without even thinking about it.

On a real bike outdoors on the road, I can hold 190 for about 20 seconds. If it is a really hard climb I max around 180. I'm talking about a hill like Pilot Mt. I can cruise at about 170. On a mountain bike it's about the same depending on the terrain. I really have never ridden very hard trails though.

On a treadmill.....forget it. I max at 165. I can hold maybe 145 for about 10 minutes. If I do that then I pretty much cannot work out the next day.

Running outside....I will pass out if I go over 140. Joking, but it's really bad. I cannot run.

Swimming, I'm not sure what my max is but half way through one lap I have to recover for about 5 minutes.

Needless to say, I like riding my bike more than any other work out. :)

[Pugslyyy]

I have found that my max is completely different depending on the excerise.Very true. If you are really into the tri scene then you know what your zones are for swim / run / bike - they are all different. I know that my zones for other activities are different than for biking, but riding is the only one I really train to / care about.

If I were trying to do triathlons I'm sure I would feel differently.

[RickF]

Swimming, I'm not sure what my max is but half way through one lap I have to recover for about 5 minutes.Heart rate when swimming is different than with other forms of exercise. The water pressure against the body greatly increases venous return, so the stroke volume is much greater. This allows a much greater cardiac output at a lower heart rate.

Why you need 5 minutes to recover from half a lap, though, has to go down to poor technique. It is similar to the swimmers or runners who take up cycling to become triathletes. Early on, I can drop them on hills even though they are half my age and in much better physical condition than I ever was or ever will be. They have no technique and try to rely on strength and conditioning and end up pushing too big a gear. As their technique improves, they will learn how to drop me, but it does not happen in the first few weeks.

Cyclists and runners who try to take up swimming tend to rely too much on their legs, not enough on their upper body, and do not know how to relax or breathe properly. They expend too much energy that is not being used to propel themselves through the water.