Another shot from LeMond

[brian_j_roth@yahoo.com]

From velonews:

"All these new training programs, oh, I lost some weight, higher RPMs,
how can you can lose more weight than 3-4 percent body weight? All
these training theories – physiology has not changed."

[Breeder]

On Jul 6, 7:05*pm, "brian_j_r...@yahoo.com" <brian_j_r...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
> From velonews:
>
> "All these new training programs, oh, I lost some weight, higher RPMs,
> how can you can lose more weight than 3-4 percent body weight? All
> these training theories – physiology has not changed."

He speaks the truth. It's the same in distance running with sub 26:20
10,000s...

[dustoyevsky@mac.com]

On Jul 6, 9:05*pm, "brian_j_r...@yahoo.com" <brian_j_r...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
> From velonews:
>
> "All these new training programs, oh, I lost some weight, higher RPMs,
> how can you can lose more weight than 3-4 percent body weight? All
> these training theories – physiology has not changed."

Greg Lemond fits the doper profile.

Which is good enough for a conviction.

Too bad we can't go back and test test test him and his "iron" shots.

He had a place, and a great one, in cycling history. Now it's got piss
and puke all over it.

The "blame", as so wonderfully exhibited by the Mitchell Report (USA
baseball), starts at the top of the sanctioning/rule making bodies and
ownership. It's easier to scapegoat the athletes, who were the ones
put in the position of either "cheating" or not having a career in
their chosen sport.

To paraphrase, "Screw the Scapegoaters".

Take back your brain. --D-y

[Kurgan Gringioni]

On Jul 6, 7:05*pm, "brian_j_r...@yahoo.com" <brian_j_r...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
> From velonews:
>
> "All these new training programs, oh, I lost some weight, higher RPMs,
> how can you can lose more weight than 3-4 percent body weight? All
> these training theories – physiology has not changed."





Dumbass -


Don't eat very much.

Concentration camp internees would probably disagree w/ Mr. LemonD.


thanks,

K. Gringioni.

[Arthur Ogus]

On 2008-07-06 19:05:22 -0700, "brian_j_roth@yahoo.com"
<brian_j_roth@yahoo.com> said:

> From velonews:
>
> "All these new training programs, oh, I lost some weight, higher RPMs,
> how can you can lose more weight than 3-4 percent body weight? All
> these training theories – physiology has not changed."


Then he goes on to say that the greatest rider of the era
was probably Jan Ullrich---who, unlike Lance Armstrong
(to whom LeMond was actually referring), was actually
caught doping.

To think I used to admire this guy.

[Bill C]

On Jul 6, 10:07*pm, Breeder <withba...@aol.com> wrote:
> On Jul 6, 7:05*pm, "brian_j_r...@yahoo.com" <brian_j_r...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> > From velonews:
>
> > "All these new training programs, oh, I lost some weight, higher RPMs,
> > how can you can lose more weight than 3-4 percent body weight? All
> > these training theories – physiology has not changed."
>
> He speaks the truth. It's the same in distance running with sub 26:20
> 10,000s...

Nothing ever changes Greg's a genius, just like Wiley Coyote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_record_progression_for_the_mile_run
Bill C

[DirtRoadie]

On Jul 7, 5:13*am, Bill C <tritonri...@verizon.net> wrote:
> On Jul 6, 10:07*pm, Breeder <withba...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > On Jul 6, 7:05*pm, "brian_j_r...@yahoo.com" <brian_j_r...@yahoo.com>
> > wrote:
>
> > > From velonews:
>
> > > "All these new training programs, oh, I lost some weight, higher RPMs,
> > > how can you can lose more weight than 3-4 percent body weight? All
> > > these training theories – physiology has not changed."
>
> > He speaks the truth. It's the same in distance running with sub 26:20
> > 10,000s...
>
> Nothing ever changes Greg's a genius, just like Wiley Coyote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_record_progression_for_the_mile_run
> *Bill C

Another case that comes to mind that may suggest training methods do
improve:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Spitz
"Then, at age 41, Spitz attempted to make a comeback in an attempt to
qualify for the 1992 Barcelona Olympics, after film maker Bud
Greenspan offered to pay him a million dollars if he succeeded in
qualifying. Filmed by Greenspan's cameras, Spitz failed to beat the
qualifying limit, despite the fact his times were nearly as good as
(and in some cases better than) his medal-winning times 20 years
earlier."

DR

[Carl Sundquist]

"DirtRoadie" <DirtRoadie@aol.com> wrote in message
news:bd9fe919-edd8-4217-b481-6db2c4f148dc@e53g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
On Jul 7, 5:13 am, Bill C <tritonri...@verizon.net> wrote:
> On Jul 6, 10:07 pm, Breeder <withba...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > On Jul 6, 7:05 pm, "brian_j_r...@yahoo.com" <brian_j_r...@yahoo.com>
> > wrote:
>
> > > From velonews:
>
> > > "All these new training programs, oh, I lost some weight, higher RPMs,
> > > how can you can lose more weight than 3-4 percent body weight? All
> > > these training theories – physiology has not changed."
>
> > He speaks the truth. It's the same in distance running with sub 26:20
> > 10,000s...
>
> Nothing ever changes Greg's a genius, just like Wiley
> Coyote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_record_progression_for_the_mile_run
> Bill C

Another case that comes to mind that may suggest training methods do
improve:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Spitz
"Then, at age 41, Spitz attempted to make a comeback in an attempt to
qualify for the 1992 Barcelona Olympics, after film maker Bud
Greenspan offered to pay him a million dollars if he succeeded in
qualifying. Filmed by Greenspan's cameras, Spitz failed to beat the
qualifying limit, despite the fact his times were nearly as good as
(and in some cases better than) his medal-winning times 20 years
earlier."
------------------------

Try explaining that to simians who think that most of the current riders are
far better than Merckx was.

[Davey Crockett]

Arthur Ogus a écrit profondement:

| On 2008-07-06 19:05:22 -0700, "brian_j_roth@yahoo.com"
| <brian_j_roth@yahoo.com> said:
|
| > From velonews:
| >
| > "All these new training programs, oh, I lost some weight, higher RPMs,
| > how can you can lose more weight than 3-4 percent body weight? All
| > these training theories – physiology has not changed."
|
|
| Then he goes on to say that the greatest rider of the era
| was probably Jan Ullrich---who, unlike Lance Armstrong
| (to whom LeMond was actually referring), was actually
| caught doping.
|
| To think I used to admire this guy.
|

Nobody pushed LeMond around France in a Wheelchair

--
Davey Crockett
Screw the New World Order

[Ryan Cousineau]

In article <2008070821390716807-arthurogusnopam@maccom>,
Arthur Ogus <arthurogus_nopam@mac.com> wrote:

> On 2008-07-06 19:05:22 -0700, "brian_j_roth@yahoo.com"
> <brian_j_roth@yahoo.com> said:
>
> > From velonews:
> >
> > "All these new training programs, oh, I lost some weight, higher RPMs,
> > how can you can lose more weight than 3-4 percent body weight? All
> > these training theories – physiology has not changed."
>
>
> Then he goes on to say that the greatest rider of the era
> was probably Jan Ullrich---who, unlike Lance Armstrong
> (to whom LeMond was actually referring), was actually
> caught doping.
>
> To think I used to admire this guy.

I still do. I think LeMond has the public personality defects of a
sad-eyed version of Al Gore, but penumbral emanations like the above
quote aside, he's probably been more right than wrong in his theories
about the secret history of cycling.

As for Jan, lots of people have said that he seems like a more purely
natural physical specimen than Armstrong (and believe it or not, that's
not a drug reference), but one who was laid low by his own erratic
commitment to training and weight management.

Lance, on the other hand, was so committed he probably should have been
committed. We all know which one ended up with more yellow jerseys,
stuffed lions, and freaky-Freud-y celebrity girlfriends, but it's not
insane to claim that Jan was "greater," for some fairly virtual values
of greater.

--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@gmail.com http://www.wiredcola.com/
"In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
"In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."

[Ted van de Weteringe]

Arthur Ogus schreef:
> Then he goes on to say that the greatest rider of the era
> was probably Jan Ullrich---who, unlike Lance Armstrong
> (to whom LeMond was actually referring), was actually
> caught doping.

No he wasn't. Yeah, he took some partypill in a club while he was
injured (knee problems) and had not been and was not supposed to be
training and racing for weeks. Big deal. Hero of the day Stefan
Schumacher: http://www.velonews.com/article/79595

[Phil]

On Jul 9, 2:51 am, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@gmail.com> wrote:
> In article <2008070821390716807-arthurogusnopam@maccom>,
> Arthur Ogus <arthurogus_no...@mac.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On 2008-07-06 19:05:22 -0700, "brian_j_r...@yahoo.com"
> > <brian_j_r...@yahoo.com> said:
>
> > > From velonews:
>
> > > "All these new training programs, oh, I lost some weight, higher RPMs,
> > > how can you can lose more weight than 3-4 percent body weight? All
> > > these training theories – physiology has not changed."
>
> > Then he goes on to say that the greatest rider of the era
> > was probably Jan Ullrich---who, unlike Lance Armstrong
> > (to whom LeMond was actually referring), was actually
> > caught doping.
>
> > To think I used to admire this guy.
>
> I still do. I think LeMond has the public personality defects of a
> sad-eyed version of Al Gore, but penumbral emanations like the above
> quote aside, he's probably been more right than wrong in his theories
> about the secret history of cycling.
>
> As for Jan, lots of people have said that he seems like a more purely
> natural physical specimen than Armstrong (and believe it or not, that's
> not a drug reference), but one who was laid low by his own erratic
> commitment to training and weight management.
>
> Lance, on the other hand, was so committed he probably should have been
> committed. We all know which one ended up with more yellow jerseys,
> stuffed lions, and freaky-Freud-y celebrity girlfriends, but it's not
> insane to claim that Jan was "greater," for some fairly virtual values
> of greater.
>
> --
> Ryan Cousineau rcous...@gmail.comhttp://www.wiredcola.com/
> "In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
> "In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."

"penumbral emanations"

****in' amazing

[SLAVE of THE STATE]

On Jul 8, 11:51*pm, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@gmail.com> wrote:

> As for Jan, lots of people have said that he seems like a more purely
> natural physical specimen than Armstrong ...


I've always considered that to be utter bull****.

[John Forrest Tomlinson]

On Wed, 09 Jul 2008 06:51:37 GMT, Ryan Cousineau <rcousine@gmail.com>
wrote:

>In article <2008070821390716807-arthurogusnopam@maccom>,
> Arthur Ogus <arthurogus_nopam@mac.com> wrote:
>
>> On 2008-07-06 19:05:22 -0700, "brian_j_roth@yahoo.com"
>> <brian_j_roth@yahoo.com> said:
>>
>> > From velonews:
>> >
>> > "All these new training programs, oh, I lost some weight, higher RPMs,
>> > how can you can lose more weight than 3-4 percent body weight? All
>> > these training theories – physiology has not changed."
>>
>>
>> Then he goes on to say that the greatest rider of the era
>> was probably Jan Ullrich---who, unlike Lance Armstrong
>> (to whom LeMond was actually referring), was actually
>> caught doping.
>>
>> To think I used to admire this guy.
>
>I still do. I think LeMond has the public personality defects of a
>sad-eyed version of Al Gore, but penumbral emanations like the above
>quote aside, he's probably been more right than wrong in his theories
>about the secret history of cycling.
>
>As for Jan, lots of people have said that he seems like a more purely
>natural physical specimen than Armstrong (and believe it or not, that's
>not a drug reference), but one who was laid low by his own erratic
>commitment to training and weight management.
>
>Lance, on the other hand, was so committed he probably should have been
>committed. We all know which one ended up with more yellow jerseys,
>stuffed lions, and freaky-Freud-y celebrity girlfriends, but it's not
>insane to claim that Jan was "greater," for some fairly virtual values
>of greater.

I admire that in Armstrong. I admire his thoroughness in doing every
little thing right. *Maybe* Ulrich was more talented, but I can't
admire his approach to the sport.

[Paul G.]

On Jul 8, 11:51*pm, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@gmail.com> wrote:
> In article <2008070821390716807-arthurogusnopam@maccom>,
> *Arthur Ogus <arthurogus_no...@mac.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On 2008-07-06 19:05:22 -0700, "brian_j_r...@yahoo.com"
> > <brian_j_r...@yahoo.com> said:
>
> > > From velonews:
>
> > > "All these new training programs, oh, I lost some weight, higher RPMs,
> > > how can you can lose more weight than 3-4 percent body weight? All
> > > these training theories – physiology has not changed."
>
> > Then he goes on to say that the greatest rider of the era
> > was probably Jan Ullrich---who, unlike Lance Armstrong
> > (to whom LeMond was actually referring), was actually
> > caught doping.
>
> > To think I used to admire this guy.
>
> I still do. I think LeMond has the public personality defects of a
> sad-eyed version of Al Gore, but penumbral emanations like the above
> quote aside, he's probably been more right than wrong in his theories
> about the secret history of cycling.
>
> As for Jan, lots of people have said that he seems like a more purely
> natural physical specimen

um.... a "purely natural physical specimen" produced by the East
German sports machine...? Wildly improbable.
-Paul

.

[Bill C]

On Jul 9, 4:39*am, Ted van de Weteringe <myfulln...@xs4all.nl.invalid>
wrote:
> Arthur Ogus schreef:
>
> > Then he goes on to say that the greatest rider of the era
> > was probably Jan Ullrich---who, unlike Lance Armstrong
> > (to whom LeMond was actually referring), was actually
> > caught doping.
>
> No he wasn't. Yeah, he took some partypill in a club while he was
> injured (knee problems) and had not been and was not supposed to be
> training and racing for weeks. Big deal. Hero of the day Stefan
> Schumacher:http://www.velonews.com/article/79595

What a crock of crap. Neverending hypocrisy.
Bill C

[Kyle Legate]

Ted van de Weteringe wrote:
> Arthur Ogus schreef:
>> Then he goes on to say that the greatest rider of the era
>> was probably Jan Ullrich---who, unlike Lance Armstrong
>> (to whom LeMond was actually referring), was actually
>> caught doping.
>
> No he wasn't. Yeah, he took some partypill in a club while he was
> injured (knee problems) and had not been and was not supposed to be
> training and racing for weeks. Big deal. Hero of the day Stefan
> Schumacher: http://www.velonews.com/article/79595

I sometimes imagine that pro athletes aren't really as dumb
as we think they are, and then:

"Our cases cannot be compared. Tom Boonen underwent a doping test. I
didn't undergo a doping test. It was a police control when I was coming
back from a disco".

Does this guy even think that's a distinction worth making? Like it
matters who found the dope in his system?

That's ok, I think, at least the managers are smarter:

"Schumacher's accident wasn't an anti-doping control. It was a police
control, which is different from the Boonen situation".
--Gerolsteiner team manager Hans-Michale Holczer

Was this guy once a rider, or what?

Since I'm not a pro athlete or one degree of separation from them, maybe
I'm not sooo stupid so I'll offer a couple of real distinctions between
the two cases:

1. Boonen was expected to be in the limelight during the first week, and
therefore was expected to generate a lot of publicity for the Tour.
Schumi wasn't. Boonen is a Big Star, Schumi...well...isn't. More people
were exposed to the Boonen/coke story, and most people, including the
Tour management, had already forgotten about Schumi. It's too bad
Schumacher's in the jersey, cause otherwise nobody would have done their
homework and found the story again.

2. The distinction both the rider and manager should have made: Due to
the circumstances of the tests, it's pretty clear that Schumacher was
amped from a party, but there's no way to rule out that Boonen didn't
get coked up for some epic training rides.

[RicodJour]

On Jul 9, 12:30*pm, Bill C <tritonri...@verizon.net> wrote:
> On Jul 9, 4:39*am, Ted van de Weteringe <myfulln...@xs4all.nl.invalid>
> wrote:
>
> > Arthur Ogus schreef:
>
> > > Then he goes on to say that the greatest rider of the era
> > > was probably Jan Ullrich---who, unlike Lance Armstrong
> > > (to whom LeMond was actually referring), was actually
> > > caught doping.
>
> > No he wasn't. Yeah, he took some partypill in a club while he was
> > injured (knee problems) and had not been and was not supposed to be
> > training and racing for weeks. Big deal. Hero of the day Stefan
> > Schumacher:http://www.velonews.com/article/79595
>
> What a crock of crap. Neverending hypocrisy.

I think that there should be a truly clean pro peloton and maybe the
Roman Catholic Church could lead the way. Then we wouldn't have to
worry about drugs and doping, just cassocks getting caught in the
wheels. Wouldn't the flapping clothing look wonderful? Everyone
would be wearing black, you couldn't tell the riders apart, and
standings would be done on the honor system. I'm not sure I'm ready
for altar boys presenting the awards on the podium, but what the hell.

R

[Tom Kunich]

"Bill C" <tritonrider@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:c166da0e-baa0-450e-a571-540fd39f210b@2g2000hsn.googlegroups.com...
On Jul 9, 4:39 am, Ted van de Weteringe <myfulln...@xs4all.nl.invalid>
wrote:
> > > Then he goes on to say that the greatest rider of the era
> > > was probably Jan Ullrich---who, unlike Lance Armstrong
> > > (to whom LeMond was actually referring), was actually
> > > caught doping.
> >
> > No he wasn't. Yeah, he took some partypill in a club while he was
> > injured (knee problems) and had not been and was not supposed to be
> > training and racing for weeks. Big deal. Hero of the day Stefan
> > Schumacher:http://www.velonews.com/article/79595
>
> What a crock of crap. Neverending hypocrisy.

Remember that I lost a brother to drugs Bill. On the other hand I betting
that you aren't afraid to drink a beer when you feel like it.

[dustoyevsky@mac.com]

On Jul 9, 12:15*pm, Phil <prh...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jul 9, 2:51 am, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > In article <2008070821390716807-arthurogusnopam@maccom>,
> > *Arthur Ogus <arthurogus_no...@mac.com> wrote:
>
> > > On 2008-07-06 19:05:22 -0700, "brian_j_r...@yahoo.com"
> > > <brian_j_r...@yahoo.com> said:
>
> > > > From velonews:
>
> > > > "All these new training programs, oh, I lost some weight, higher RPMs,
> > > > how can you can lose more weight than 3-4 percent body weight? All
> > > > these training theories – physiology has not changed."
>
> > > Then he goes on to say that the greatest rider of the era
> > > was probably Jan Ullrich---who, unlike Lance Armstrong
> > > (to whom LeMond was actually referring), was actually
> > > caught doping.
>
> > > To think I used to admire this guy.
>
> > I still do. I think LeMond has the public personality defects of a
> > sad-eyed version of Al Gore, but penumbral emanations like the above
> > quote aside, he's probably been more right than wrong in his theories
> > about the secret history of cycling.
>
> > As for Jan, lots of people have said that he seems like a more purely
> > natural physical specimen than Armstrong (and believe it or not, that's
> > not a drug reference), but one who was laid low by his own erratic
> > commitment to training and weight management.
>
> > Lance, on the other hand, was so committed he probably should have been
> > committed. We all know which one ended up with more yellow jerseys,
> > stuffed lions, and freaky-Freud-y celebrity girlfriends, but it's not
> > insane to claim that Jan was "greater," for some fairly virtual values
> > of greater.
>
> > --
> > Ryan Cousineau rcous...@gmail.comhttp://www.wiredcola.com/
> > "In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
> > "In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."
>
> "penumbral emanations"


A. What comes out after using Delay?

(<http://www.ultimate-herbal.com/premature-ejaculation-cream.aspx>)

--D-y

[Ryan Cousineau]

In article
<6f1972f3-1303-47f5-ac18-faae49de804d@x35g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>,
Phil <prh142@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Jul 9, 2:51 am, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > In article <2008070821390716807-arthurogusnopam@maccom>,
> > Arthur Ogus <arthurogus_no...@mac.com> wrote:
> >
> > > On 2008-07-06 19:05:22 -0700, "brian_j_r...@yahoo.com"
> > > <brian_j_r...@yahoo.com> said:

> > > Then he goes on to say that the greatest rider of the era
> > > was probably Jan Ullrich---who, unlike Lance Armstrong
> > > (to whom LeMond was actually referring), was actually
> > > caught doping.
> >
> > > To think I used to admire this guy.
> >
> > I still do. I think LeMond has the public personality defects of a
> > sad-eyed version of Al Gore, but penumbral emanations like the above
> > quote aside, he's probably been more right than wrong in his theories
> > about the secret history of cycling.
>
> "penumbral emanations"
>
> ****in' amazing

Can't take credit. I stole it from Slave of the State, who stole it from
William O. Douglas (Griswold v. Connecticut).

--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@gmail.com http://www.wiredcola.com/
"In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
"In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."

[Donald Munro]

dustoyevsky@mac.com wrote:
> A. What comes out after using Delay?
>
> (<http://www.ultimate-herbal.com/premature-ejaculation-cream.aspx>)

Just add Viagra and stir.

[Bill C]

On Jul 9, 1:27*pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
> "Bill C" <tritonri...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>
> news:c166da0e-baa0-450e-a571-540fd39f210b@2g2000hsn.googlegroups.com...
> On Jul 9, 4:39 am, Ted van de Weteringe <myfulln...@xs4all.nl.invalid>
> wrote:
>
> > > > Then he goes on to say that the greatest rider of the era
> > > > was probably Jan Ullrich---who, unlike Lance Armstrong
> > > > (to whom LeMond was actually referring), was actually
> > > > caught doping.
>
> > > No he wasn't. Yeah, he took some partypill in a club while he was
> > > injured (knee problems) and had not been and was not supposed to be
> > > training and racing for weeks. Big deal. Hero of the day Stefan
> > > Schumacher:http://www.velonews.com/article/79595
>
> > What a crock of crap. Neverending hypocrisy.
>
> Remember that I lost a brother to drugs Bill. On the other hand I betting
> that you aren't afraid to drink a beer when you feel like it.

Tom I was referring to the double standard between Boonen and
Schumacher, and somehow that it's OK that Schumacher failed a test in
the legal system, administered by the police, and that's fine because
it wasn't a Wada doping test. Yet Boonen is a scumbag because his was
a Wada test.
The world is pretty skewed when the procedures of a sport, any sport
trump the long established, and multilayered legal system and it's
protections.
That's what I was talking about.
Bill C

[Bret Wade]

SLAVE of THE STATE wrote:
> On Jul 8, 11:51 pm, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> As for Jan, lots of people have said that he seems like a more purely
>> natural physical specimen than Armstrong ...
>
>
> I've always considered that to be utter bull****.

In 1996-7 he looked like a huge talent. It's hard to say how much of
that was squandered. His weight issues certainly added credence to the idea.

Bret

[Tom Kunich]

"Bret Wade" <bret.wade@xilinx.com> wrote in message
news:g52vfi$rjb3@cnn.xsj.xilinx.com...
> SLAVE of THE STATE wrote:
>> On Jul 8, 11:51 pm, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> As for Jan, lots of people have said that he seems like a more purely
>>> natural physical specimen than Armstrong ...
>>
>> I've always considered that to be utter bull****.
>
> In 1996-7 he looked like a huge talent. It's hard to say how much of that
> was squandered. His weight issues certainly added credence to the idea.

Of course the changing body of a very young rider into an adult had
absolutely nothing to do with it.

[SLAVE of THE STATE]

On Jul 9, 11:19 am, Bret Wade <bret.w...@xilinx.com> wrote:
> SLAVE of THE STATE wrote:
>
> > On Jul 8, 11:51 pm, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> As for Jan, lots of people have said that he seems like a more purely
> >> natural physical specimen than Armstrong ...
>
> > I've always considered that to be utter bull****.
>
> In 1996-7 he looked like a huge talent.

I'd never say Jan was not a "huge talent" -- I definitely think he
was. But I'd say LANCE was too.

[ilanpsi@gmail.com]

On Jul 9, 8:31 pm, Kyle Legate <lega...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Ted van de Weteringe wrote:
>
> > Arthur Ogus schreef:
> >> Then he goes on to say that the greatest rider of the era
> >> was probably Jan Ullrich---who, unlike Lance Armstrong
> >> (to whom LeMond was actually referring), was actually
> >> caught doping.
>
> > No he wasn't. Yeah, he took some partypill in a club while he was
> > injured (knee problems) and had not been and was not supposed to be
> > training and racing for weeks. Big deal. Hero of the day Stefan
> > Schumacher:http://www.velonews.com/article/79595
>
> I sometimes imagine that pro athletes aren't really as dumb
> as we think they are, and then:
>
> "Our cases cannot be compared. Tom Boonen underwent a doping test. I
> didn't undergo a doping test. It was a police control when I was coming
> back from a disco".
>
> Does this guy even think that's a distinction worth making? Like it
> matters who found the dope in his system?
>
> That's ok, I think, at least the managers are smarter:
>
> "Schumacher's accident wasn't an anti-doping control. It was a police
> control, which is different from the Boonen situation".
> --Gerolsteiner team manager Hans-Michale Holczer
>
> Was this guy once a rider, or what?
>
> Since I'm not a pro athlete or one degree of separation from them, maybe
> I'm not sooo stupid so I'll offer a couple of real distinctions between
> the two cases:
>
> 1. Boonen was expected to be in the limelight during the first week, and
> therefore was expected to generate a lot of publicity for the Tour.
> Schumi wasn't. Boonen is a Big Star, Schumi...well...isn't. More people
> were exposed to the Boonen/coke story, and most people, including the
> Tour management, had already forgotten about Schumi. It's too bad
> Schumacher's in the jersey, cause otherwise nobody would have done their
> homework and found the story again.
>
> 2. The distinction both the rider and manager should have made: Due to
> the circumstances of the tests, it's pretty clear that Schumacher was
> amped from a party, but there's no way to rule out that Boonen didn't
> get coked up for some epic training rides.

The biggest difference is that Boonen is clearly having some kind of
mental breakdown and forcing him to do this year's Tour would have led
him down the Pantani road. Even though ASO was disingenuous his
sponsors did the right thing by not forcing his ride, which they could
have done.

-ilan

[Bret Wade]

Tom Kunich wrote:
> "Bret Wade" <bret.wade@xilinx.com> wrote in message
> news:g52vfi$rjb3@cnn.xsj.xilinx.com...
>> SLAVE of THE STATE wrote:
>>> On Jul 8, 11:51 pm, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> As for Jan, lots of people have said that he seems like a more purely
>>>> natural physical specimen than Armstrong ...
>>>
>>> I've always considered that to be utter bull****.
>>
>> In 1996-7 he looked like a huge talent. It's hard to say how much of
>> that was squandered. His weight issues certainly added credence to the
>> idea.
>
> Of course the changing body of a very young rider into an adult had
> absolutely nothing to do with it.
>

Name another rider who won a TDF at a young age and then became less
competitive because his body matured. The truth is that they reach their
competitive peak in the late twenties, not their early twenties.

[Davey Crockett]

ilanpsi@gmail.com a écrit profondement:

|
| The biggest difference is that Boonen is clearly having some kind of
| mental breakdown and forcing him to do this year's Tour would have led
| him down the Pantani road. Even though ASO was disingenuous his
| sponsors did the right thing by not forcing his ride, which they could
| have done.
|
| -ilan

But I wouldn't mind betting that Quick Step dump him at the first
possible opportunity

--
Davey Crockett
9/11 was an Inside Job

[Tom Kunich]

"Davey Crockett" <daveycrockett4Q@azurservers.com> wrote in message
news:87mykqeubg.fsf@azurservers.com...
> ilanpsi@gmail.com a écrit profondement:
>
> |
> | The biggest difference is that Boonen is clearly having some kind of
> | mental breakdown and forcing him to do this year's Tour would have led
> | him down the Pantani road. Even though ASO was disingenuous his
> | sponsors did the right thing by not forcing his ride, which they could
> | have done.
> |
> | -ilan
>
> But I wouldn't mind betting that Quick Step dump him at the first
> possible opportunity

I'd probably take that bet. Boonen has had a huge ego blow-up with his
winning form so early. But the kid seems too smart to let his own ignorance
rule his life. My guess is that he will reform.

[Davey Crockett]

Bret Wade a écrit profondement:

| Tom Kunich wrote:
| > "Bret Wade" <bret.wade@xilinx.com> wrote in message
| > news:g52vfi$rjb3@cnn.xsj.xilinx.com...
| >> SLAVE of THE STATE wrote:
| >>> On Jul 8, 11:51 pm, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@gmail.com> wrote:
| >>>
| >>>> As for Jan, lots of people have said that he seems like a more purely
| >>>> natural physical specimen than Armstrong ...
| >>>
| >>> I've always considered that to be utter bull****.
| >>
| >> In 1996-7 he looked like a huge talent. It's hard to say how much
| >> of that was squandered. His weight issues certainly added credence
| >> to the idea.
| >
| > Of course the changing body of a very young rider into an adult had
| > absolutely nothing to do with it.
| >
|
| Name another rider who won a TDF at a young age and then became less
| competitive because his body matured. The truth is that they reach
| their competitive peak in the late twenties, not their early twenties.

Fignon ?

--
Davey Crockett
9/11 was an Inside Job

[Tom Kunich]

"Davey Crockett" <daveycrockett4Q@azurservers.com> wrote in message
news:87iqveeu2c.fsf@azurservers.com...
> Bret Wade a écrit profondement:
>
> | Tom Kunich wrote:
> | > "Bret Wade" <bret.wade@xilinx.com> wrote in message
> | > news:g52vfi$rjb3@cnn.xsj.xilinx.com...
> | >> SLAVE of THE STATE wrote:
> | >>> On Jul 8, 11:51 pm, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@gmail.com> wrote:
> | >>>
> | >>>> As for Jan, lots of people have said that he seems like a more
> purely
> | >>>> natural physical specimen than Armstrong ...
> | >>>
> | >>> I've always considered that to be utter bull****.
> | >>
> | >> In 1996-7 he looked like a huge talent. It's hard to say how much
> | >> of that was squandered. His weight issues certainly added credence
> | >> to the idea.
> | >
> | > Of course the changing body of a very young rider into an adult had
> | > absolutely nothing to do with it.
> | >
> |
> | Name another rider who won a TDF at a young age and then became less
> | competitive because his body matured. The truth is that they reach
> | their competitive peak in the late twenties, not their early twenties.
>
> Fignon ?

How about the second TdF winner Henri Cornet who won at 19?

[Ryan Cousineau]

On Jul 9, 12:28*pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
> "Davey Crockett" <daveycrocket...@azurservers.com> wrote in message
>
> news:87mykqeubg.fsf@azurservers.com...
>
> > ilan...@gmail.com a écrit profondement:
>
> > |
> > | The biggest difference is that Boonen is clearly having some kind of
> > | mental breakdown and forcing him to do this year's Tour would have led
> > | him down the Pantani road. Even though ASO was disingenuous his
> > | sponsors did the right thing by not forcing his ride, which they could
> > | have done.
> > |
> > | -ilan
>
> > But I wouldn't mind betting that Quick Step dump him at the first
> > possible opportunity
>
> I'd probably take that bet. Boonen has had a huge ego blow-up with his
> winning form so early. But the kid seems too smart to let his own ignorance
> rule his life. My guess is that he will reform.

On what basis does Mr. Boonen seem "smart" to you?

I mean, I love the guy to pieces, but the only evidence of maturity or
anything approaching smarts I can find is that he owns an RS6 Avant
instead of a Gallardo.

I don't particularly expect pro cyclists to be role models or
scholars, but a teenaged girlfriend is eyebrow-raising, and getting
busted for recreational drugs is come-to-work-drunk levels of stupid.

[Ryan Cousineau]

In article <guma745m0obas52k23t29rqdfc494dn8hu@4ax.com>,
John Forrest Tomlinson <usenetremove@jt10000.com> wrote:

> On Wed, 09 Jul 2008 06:51:37 GMT, Ryan Cousineau <rcousine@gmail.com>
> wrote:

> >Lance, on the other hand, was so committed he probably should have been
> >committed. We all know which one ended up with more yellow jerseys,
> >stuffed lions, and freaky-Freud-y celebrity girlfriends
>
> I admire that in Armstrong. I admire his thoroughness in doing every
> little thing right.

Edited for hilarity.

--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@gmail.com http://www.wiredcola.com/
"In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
"In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."

[Donald Munro]

John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:
> I admire that in Armstrong. I admire his thoroughness in doing every
> little thing right. *Maybe* Ulrich was more talented, but I can't admire
> his approach to the sport.

Ullrich's approach would probably have been admired by Baron de Coubertin.

[Donald Munro]

Ryan Cousineau wrote:
> Can't take credit. I stole it from Slave of the State, who stole it from
> William O. Douglas (Griswold v. Connecticut).

SOTS will no doubt sue you for breach of copyright.

[RicodJour]

On Jul 9, 11:31*pm, "Paul G." <carb...@egine.com> wrote:
> On Jul 8, 11:51*pm, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > As for Jan, lots of people have said that he seems like a more purely
> > natural physical specimen
>
> um.... a "purely natural physical specimen" produced by the East
> German sports machine...? *Wildly improbable.

And mutually exclusive.

R

[Carl Sundquist]

"Donald Munro" <fat-dumbass@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4875c283$0$15533$ec3e2dad@news.usenetmonster. com...
> Ryan Cousineau wrote:
>> Can't take credit. I stole it from Slave of the State, who stole it from
>> William O. Douglas (Griswold v. Connecticut).
>
> SOTS will no doubt sue you for breach of copyright.

No he won't. Remember, he doesn't believe in "intellectual property".

[Tom Kunich]

"Bill C" <tritonrider@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:e6ae9a81-b160-41c4-9d6a-bb4c52974b92@a70g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
On Jul 9, 1:27 pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
> >
> > Remember that I lost a brother to drugs Bill. On the other hand I
> > betting
> > that you aren't afraid to drink a beer when you feel like it.
>
> Tom I was referring to the double standard between Boonen and
> Schumacher, and somehow that it's OK that Schumacher failed a test in
> the legal system, administered by the police, and that's fine because
> it wasn't a Wada doping test. Yet Boonen is a scumbag because his was
> a Wada test.

I didn't get that feeling at all. Schumacher was just pointing out the
differences that made his and Boonen's dissimilar.

[Bill C]

On Jul 10, 5:37*pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
> "Bill C" <tritonri...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>
> news:e6ae9a81-b160-41c4-9d6a-bb4c52974b92@a70g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
> On Jul 9, 1:27 pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > > Remember that I lost a brother to drugs Bill. On the other hand I
> > > betting
> > > that you aren't afraid to drink a beer when you feel like it.
>
> > Tom I was referring to the double standard between Boonen and
> > Schumacher, and somehow that it's OK that Schumacher failed a test in
> > the legal system, administered by the police, and that's fine because
> > it wasn't a Wada doping test. Yet Boonen is a scumbag because his was
> > a Wada test.
>
> I didn't get that feeling at all. Schumacher was just pointing out the
> differences that made his and Boonen's dissimilar.

Reasonable people can get different things. I've been pretty cranky
lately so that could well have colored it for me.
Bill C

[RicodJour]

On Jul 10, 9:30*pm, Bill C <tritonri...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> Reasonable people can get different things. I've been pretty cranky
> lately so that could well have colored it for me.

You're selling yourself short - you've been cranky for a long
time. :)~

R

[Donald Munro]

Bill C wrote:
>> Reasonable people can get different things. I've been pretty cranky
>> lately so that could well have colored it for me.

RicodJour wrote:
> You're selling yourself short - you've been cranky for a long time. :)~

175 or 172.5 or doesn't it matter ?

[Michael Press]

In article
<28b9bccc-2aa2-4a9c-b7bd-feaeb2eaa956@p25g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>,
RicodJour <ricodjour@worldemail.com> wrote:

> On Jul 10, 9:30*pm, Bill C <tritonri...@verizon.net> wrote:
> >
> > Reasonable people can get different things. I've been pretty cranky
> > lately so that could well have colored it for me.
>
> You're selling yourself short - you've been cranky for a long
> time. :)~

Judge Smails: You know, you should play with Dr. Beeper and myself.
I mean, he's been club champion for three years running
and I'm no slouch myself.

Ty Webb: Don't sell yourself short Judge,
you're a tremendous slouch.

--
Michael Press

[Bill C]

On Jul 11, 3:22*am, Donald Munro <fat-dumb...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Bill C wrote:
> >> Reasonable people can get different things. I've been pretty cranky
> >> lately so that could well have colored it for me.
> RicodJour wrote:
> > You're selling yourself short - you've been cranky for a long time. *:)~
>
> *175 or 172.5 or doesn't it matter ?

Either way I go slowly, so in my case, no.
Bill C