Re: Copenhagenized Cycleliciousness

[Tom Sherman]

Forbes B-Black wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> Many of you have seen Zakkaliciousness' photos on flickr or visited
> his blogs, Copenhagen Cycle Chic, Copenhagenize, and others. But
> there is more to Mikael Colville-Andersen than just photos of
> fashionable women riding bicycles. He is a crusader and an evangelist
> for practical bicycles.
>
> I interviewed Mikael for Cycloculture. Details here:
>
> http://cycloculture.blogspot.com/2008/07/copenhagenized-cycleliciousness.html
>
From the article:

"Q: What do you say to Americans who tell me that they absolutely cannot
commute by bicycle unless there is a shower available to them at work?

A: I think I just roll my eyes. There are 100 million Europeans who ride
their bike daily and they get on fine without this strange 'shower at
work' angle. It's just another ridiculous way to keep branding cycling
as sporty, sweaty and difficult, when the opposite is true."

Yeah, easy not to get too sweaty in a place with no hills and low
summertime humidity with high temperatures of 20 to 25°C. In much of the
US with high temperatures from 30 to 40°C and relative humidity in
excess of 80%, one can not even stand outside without getting soaked.

Having a shower also makes longer and faster commutes more practical,
rather than severely limiting the level of exertion to keep from getting
too nasty.

Subsidizing showers and secure bicycle parking would be a lot less
expensive than subsidizing individualized fossil fuel powered transport.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"People who had no mercy will find none." - Anon.

[Chalo]

Tom Sherman wrote:
>
> >http://cycloculture.blogspot.com/2008/07/copenhagenized-cycleliciousn...
>
> *From the article:
>
> "Q: What do you say to Americans who tell me that they absolutely cannot
> commute by bicycle unless there is a shower available to them at work?
>
> A: I think I just roll my eyes. There are 100 million Europeans who ride
> their bike daily and they get on fine without this strange 'shower at
> work' angle. It's just another ridiculous way to keep branding cycling
> as sporty, sweaty and difficult, when the opposite is true."
>
> Yeah, easy not to get too sweaty in a place with no hills and low
> summertime humidity with high temperatures of 20 to 25°C. In much of the
> US with high temperatures from 30 to 40°C and relative humidity in
> excess of 80%, one can not even stand outside without getting soaked.

India.

Chalo

[jp0708]

On 19 juil, 20:14, Tom Sherman <sunsetss0...@REMOVETHISyahoo.com>
wrote:
> Forbes B-Black wrote:
> > Hi All,
>
> > Many of you have seen Zakkaliciousness' photos on flickr or visited
> > his blogs, Copenhagen Cycle Chic, Copenhagenize, and others. But
> > there is more to Mikael Colville-Andersen than just photos of
> > fashionable women riding bicycles. He is a crusader and an evangelist
> > for practical bicycles.
>
> > I interviewed Mikael for Cycloculture. Details here:
>
> >http://cycloculture.blogspot.com/2008/07/copenhagenized-cycleliciousn...
>
> From the article:
>
> "Q: What do you say to Americans who tell me that they absolutely cannot
> commute by bicycle unless there is a shower available to them at work?
>
> A: I think I just roll my eyes. There are 100 million Europeans who ride
> their bike daily



100 million ? 1 on 5 ? Sure it's not 10 million rather ?


> and they get on fine without this strange 'shower at
> work' angle. It's just another ridiculous way to keep branding cycling
> as sporty, sweaty and difficult, when the opposite is true."
>
> Yeah, easy not to get too sweaty in a place with no hills and low
> summertime humidity with high temperatures of 20 to 25°C. In much of the
> US with high temperatures from 30 to 40°C and relative humidity in
> excess of 80%, one can not even stand outside without getting soaked.
>
> Having a shower also makes longer and faster commutes more practical,
> rather than severely limiting the level of exertion to keep from getting
> too nasty.
>
> Subsidizing showers and secure bicycle parking would be a lot less
> expensive than subsidizing individualized fossil fuel powered transport.
>
> --
> Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
> "People who had no mercy will find none." - Anon.

Sholl

[Tom Sherman]

Chalo Colina wrote:
> Tom Sherman wrote:
>>> http://cycloculture.blogspot.com/2008/07/copenhagenized-cycleliciousn...
>> From the article:
>>
>> "Q: What do you say to Americans who tell me that they absolutely cannot
>> commute by bicycle unless there is a shower available to them at work?
>>
>> A: I think I just roll my eyes. There are 100 million Europeans who ride
>> their bike daily and they get on fine without this strange 'shower at
>> work' angle. It's just another ridiculous way to keep branding cycling
>> as sporty, sweaty and difficult, when the opposite is true."
>>
>> Yeah, easy not to get too sweaty in a place with no hills and low
>> summertime humidity with high temperatures of 20 to 25°C. In much of the
>> US with high temperatures from 30 to 40°C and relative humidity in
>> excess of 80%, one can not even stand outside without getting soaked.
>
> India.
>
You are not trying to tell us that people in India wear western style
business dress and cycle to work without getting hot and sweaty?

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"People who had no mercy will find none." - Anon.

[Michael Baldwin]

Chalo points out -

>India.

Excellent example Chalo. And all of those soon to be empty Starbucks
could be turned into mini Karni Mata Temples. After all it's all a
matter of perspective isn't?

Best Regards - Mike Baldwin

[Pat]

>
> Yeah, easy not to get too sweaty in a place with no hills and low
> summertime humidity with high temperatures of 20 to 25°C. In much of the
> US with high temperatures from 30 to 40°C and relative humidity in
> excess of 80%, one can not even stand outside without getting soaked.

India.

Chalo

Okay, I need more explanation. Did you throw out "India" because you know it
gets hot in the summer time there or do you actually KNOW anything about
what their cycling commuters do upon arriving at work? I suspect it is the
former.

Pat in TX

[Chalo]

Tom Sherman wrote:
>
> ChaloColina wrote:
> >
> > Tom Sherman wrote:
> >>
> >> *From the article:
> > >>
> > >> "Q: What do you say to Americans who tell me that they absolutely cannot
> > >> commute by bicycle unless there is a shower available to them at work?
> > >>
> > >> There are 100 million Europeans who ride
> > >> their bike daily and they get on fine without this strange 'shower at
> > >> work' angle. It's just another ridiculous way to keep branding cycling
> > >> as sporty, sweaty and difficult, when the opposite is true."
> >>
> >> Yeah, easy not to get too sweaty in a place with no hills and low
> >> summertime humidity with high temperatures of 20 to 25°C. In much of the
> >> US with high temperatures from 30 to 40°C and relative humidity in
> >> excess of 80%, one can not even stand outside without getting soaked.
> >
> > India.
>
> You are not trying to tell us that people in India wear western style
> business dress and cycle to work without getting hot and sweaty?

I'm not saying anything about getting hot and sweaty. That's just a
fact of life in India, or Texas, or the American Midwest in the dog
days of summer-- whether you ride bike or not. But I do suggest that
there are far more Indians who ride to work in business dress than
Americans who do the same, even if their climate is hotter and their
offices don't provide showers. It can be done.

Chalo

[Chalo]

Pat wrote:
>
> > Yeah, easy not to get too sweaty in a place with no hills and low
> > summertime humidity with high temperatures of 20 to 25°C. In much of the
> > US with high temperatures from 30 to 40°C and relative humidity in
> > excess of 80%, one can not even stand outside without getting soaked.
>
> India.
>
> Okay, I need more explanation. Did you throw out "India" because you know it
> gets hot in the summer time there or do you actually KNOW anything about
> what their cycling commuters do upon arriving at work? *I suspect it is the
> former.

Not every Texan is a provincial ignoramus. You are free to uphold
that tradition if it suits you, of course.

I am more familiar with India than the average American; my wife has
lived in Kerala and goes there for months at a time when she can get
away for that long.

There are more people who cycle to work in India than there are people
who cycle _anywhere_ in the United States. And they are less likely
to have washing facilities available at work than Americans are (in
India, a "shower" often means dousing yourself from a bucket with a
dipper) despite being generally more fanatical about their personal
cleanliness.

Chalo

[Tom Keats]

In article <8edeff52-d01a-4a9d-bff9-682a4a225e76@b1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
Chalo <chalo.colina@gmail.com> writes:

>> You are not trying to tell us that people in India wear western style
>> business dress and cycle to work without getting hot and sweaty?
> I'm not saying anything about getting hot and sweaty. That's just a
> fact of life in India, or Texas, or the American Midwest in the dog
> days of summer-- whether you ride bike or not. But I do suggest that
> there are far more Indians who ride to work in business dress than
> Americans who do the same, even if their climate is hotter and their
> offices don't provide showers. It can be done.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

People give up before they even start, too readily.

"It can be done" would make a pretty good motto.
I like that. I like it a lot. Now I just need
Ryan Cousineau to translate it into Latin, and I
just might adopt/adapt it, with your permission
of course. Maybe have it printed on a T-shirt
and wear it at work. Maybe have it printed on
the front of a T-shirt, while having the dictionary
definition of "perfunctory" printed on the back.


cheers, & nothing is safe from me,
Tom

--
Nothing is safe from me.
I'm really at:
tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

[Pat]

>
> India.
>
> Okay, I need more explanation. Did you throw out "India" because you know
> it
> gets hot in the summer time there or do you actually KNOW anything about
> what their cycling commuters do upon arriving at work? I suspect it is the
> former.

Not every Texan is a provincial ignoramus. You are free to uphold
that tradition if it suits you, of course.

OH, that's just choice! I ask you politely to explain and you whip right
into character assassination. What a guy!




I am more familiar with India than the average American; my wife has
lived in Kerala and goes there for months at a time when she can get
away for that long.

And I am supposed to know this, how, exactly? Oh yeah, while I was being a
"provincial ignoramus" and you were being a ....what? Starts with A..H... I
believe. You fit the description.

Pat in TX

[Tom Sherman]

Chalo Colina wrote:
> ...
> Not every Texan is a provincial ignoramus....

The one's they send to Washington DC are not representative then, eh?

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"People who had no mercy will find none." - Anon.

[Frank Krygowski]

On Jul 21, 11:32*am, "Pat" <m...@sunmaill.com> wrote:
> > India.
>
> > Okay, I need more explanation. Did you throw out "India" because you know
> > it
> > gets hot in the summer time there or do you actually KNOW anything about
> > what their cycling commuters do upon arriving at work? I suspect it is the
> > former.
>
> Not every Texan is a provincial ignoramus. *You are free to uphold
> that tradition if it suits you, of course.
>
> OH, that's just choice! I ask you politely to explain and you whip right
> into character assassination. What a guy!
>
> I am more familiar with India than the average American; my wife has
> lived in Kerala and goes there for months at a time when she can get
> away for that long.
>
> And I am supposed to know this, how, exactly? Oh yeah, while I was being a
> "provincial ignoramus" and you were being a ....what? Starts with A..H... I
> believe. You fit the description.
>
> Pat in TX

Pat, did you have trouble installing the quote fixing software?

What went wrong? Maybe someone here can help.

- Frank Krygowski

[Chalo]

Pat wrote:
>
> Chalo wrote:
> >
> > Pat wrote:
> > >
> > > Chalo wrote:
> > > >
> > > > India.
> > >
> > > Okay, I need more explanation. Did you throw out "India" because you
> > > know it gets hot in the summer time there or do you actually KNOW
> > > anything about what their cycling commuters do upon arriving at work?
> > > I suspect it is the former.
> >
> > Not every Texan is a provincial ignoramus. *You are free to uphold
> > that tradition if it suits you, of course.
>
> OH, that's just choice! I ask you politely to explain and you whip right
> into character assassination. What a guy!

This surprises you when you accuse someone of not knowing what he's
talking about, without any basis for such a conclusion?

By the way, I don't suggest that you necessarily _are_ an ignoramus--
though I have at least as much evidence to that effect as you did to
conclude that I didn't know what I was talking about.

Have a nice day,

Chalo

[Tom Sherman]

Pat in Texas wrote:
> ...
> And I am supposed to know this, how, exactly? Oh yeah, while I was being a
> "provincial ignoramus" and you [Chalo] were being a ....what? Starts with A..H...
> I believe. You fit the description.
>
Yes, Chalo is a Amicable Human.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"People who had no mercy will find none." - Anon.

[Tom Keats]

In article <g63cr2$vr1$2@registered.motzarella.org>,
Tom Sherman <sunsetss0003@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> writes:
> Chalo Colina wrote:
>> ...
>> Not every Texan is a provincial ignoramus....
>
> The one's they send to Washington DC are not representative then, eh?

I've heard that at formal dinners, LBJ used to fork stuff
off of adjacent people's plates.

LBJ remains somewhat enigmatic to me. Pro Civil Rights, but
escalated Viet Nam just to show the world he was a stauncher
anti-Communist than Goldwater.

Lifting doggies by the ears left me cold.

A 1968 barroom brawl between LBJ and Billy Martin would
have been an interesting reenactment of your Civil War.

The Beatle's tune: The Fool On the Hill, is reputed to
be about LBJ.

I don't mean to dis' President Lyndon Bains Johnson.
On a certain level, I sorta empathise with him. I
recall how drastically he had aged by the end of his
political career. He looked like a man who had had
enough, and just wanted to kick back and BBQ dead meat,
and watch any TV that wasn't The News. Maybe Voyage
to the Bottom of the Sea, starring Richard Basehart &
David Hedison. Or Ed Sullivan. Especially if Topo
Gigo ("Eddie -- kiss me goodnight") was on. Or Disneyland.

I bet LBJ could (and would) kick President Bill Clinton's
ass around the block like a tin can.

Then it would be time for a cool, refreshing lemonade on
the front porch, as the sun sets. He could contemplate
quotes of Topo Gigo, as Ladybird yammers on about ugly
freeway billboards, and a disproportionate number of
African-Americans get killed or maimed in Viet Nam.


cheers,
Tom


--
Nothing is safe from me.
I'm really at:
tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

[Tom Sherman]

Tom Keats wrote:
> In article <g63cr2$vr1$2@registered.motzarella.org>,
> Tom Sherman <sunsetss0003@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> writes:
>> Chalo Colina wrote:
>>> ...
>>> Not every Texan is a provincial ignoramus....
>> The one's they send to Washington DC are not representative then, eh?
>
> I've heard that at formal dinners, LBJ used to fork stuff
> off of adjacent people's plates.
>
> LBJ remains somewhat enigmatic to me. Pro Civil Rights, but
> escalated Viet Nam just to show the world he was a stauncher
> anti-Communist than Goldwater.
>
> Lifting doggies by the ears left me cold.
>
> A 1968 barroom brawl between LBJ and Billy Martin would
> have been an interesting reenactment of your Civil War.
>
> The Beatle's tune: The Fool On the Hill, is reputed to
> be about LBJ.
>
> I don't mean to dis' President Lyndon Bains Johnson.
> On a certain level, I sorta empathise with him. I
> recall how drastically he had aged by the end of his
> political career. He looked like a man who had had
> enough, and just wanted to kick back and BBQ dead meat,
> and watch any TV that wasn't The News. Maybe Voyage
> to the Bottom of the Sea, starring Richard Basehart &
> David Hedison. Or Ed Sullivan. Especially if Topo
> Gigo ("Eddie -- kiss me goodnight") was on. Or Disneyland.
>
> I bet LBJ could (and would) kick President Bill Clinton's
> ass around the block like a tin can.
>
> Then it would be time for a cool, refreshing lemonade on
> the front porch, as the sun sets. He could contemplate
> quotes of Topo Gigo, as Ladybird yammers on about ugly
> freeway billboards, and a disproportionate number of
> African-Americans get killed or maimed in Viet Nam.
>
Ancient history man. I was thinking about more recent Texans, native and
in particular, immigrants from New England.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"People who had no mercy will find none." - Anon.

[catzz66]

Tom Keats wrote:
> In article <g63cr2$vr1$2@registered.motzarella.org>,
> ... Lots of LBJ trivia

LBJ died in 1973, probably before a lot of these readers were born.

[Tom Keats]

In article <g63h3u$qs5$1@registered.motzarella.org>,
Tom Sherman <sunsetss0003@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> writes:

> Ancient history man. I was thinking about more recent Texans, native and
> in particular, immigrants from New England.

Kennedies?


Anyways, yer makin' me feel old.
Please stop doing that, or I'll
have to respond in kind.

And yeah, screw History. It just
gets in the way of Progress.


cheers,
Tom

--
Nothing is safe from me.
I'm really at:
tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

[Tom Sherman]

Tom Keats wrote:
> In article <g63h3u$qs5$1@registered.motzarella.org>,
> Tom Sherman <sunsetss0003@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> writes:
>
>> Ancient history man. I was thinking about more recent Texans, native and
>> in particular, immigrants from New England.
>
> Kennedies?
>
Shrubs.

> Anyways, yer makin' me feel old.

Hey, I am a Trudeau baby.

> Please stop doing that, or I'll
> have to respond in kind....
>
The earliest memory I have of a US President is the immortal line by
Jerry R., "I'm not a Lincoln, I'm a Ford".

By that standard, a President Mercury would not be too bad right now.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"People who had no mercy will find none." - Anon.

[Chalo]

Tom Sherman wrote:
>
> The earliest memory I have of a US President is the immortal line by
> Jerry R., "I'm not a Lincoln, I'm a Ford".

My earliest awareness of a president in any form was during the
Watergate hearings. Every adult I knew was glued to the TV, focused
to the exclusion of pretty much everything else. I asked what was
going on, and I got the four-year-old's digest version. I was utterly
perplexed, but at least I was no longer interested in what was
happening.

I guess that landed me in the first generation of Americans (of the
twentieth century, anyway) who didn't have respect for the highest
authority as OEM equipment.

Chalo

[Tom Keats]

In article <g63jgi$9vh$1@registered.motzarella.org>,
Tom Sherman <sunsetss0003@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> writes:

>> Anyways, yer makin' me feel old.
>
> Hey, I am a Trudeau baby.

Pierre or Gary? And does the respective one know
you're their baby?

I kinda prefer Berke's Breatheds stuff over
Gary Trudeau's, myself:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1271201/posts


cheers,
Tom

--
Nothing is safe from me.
I'm really at:
tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

[Tom Sherman]

Chalo Colina wrote:
> Tom Sherman wrote:
>> The earliest memory I have of a US President is the immortal line by
>> Jerry R., "I'm not a Lincoln, I'm a Ford".
>
> My earliest awareness of a president in any form was during the
> Watergate hearings. Every adult I knew was glued to the TV, focused
> to the exclusion of pretty much everything else. I asked what was
> going on, and I got the four-year-old's digest version. I was utterly
> perplexed, but at least I was no longer interested in what was
> happening.
>
At the time [1], I thought Watergate had to do with some sort of hydro
control structure.

> I guess that landed me in the first generation of Americans (of the
> twentieth century, anyway) who didn't have respect for the highest
> authority as OEM equipment.
>
We have gone from the time when Truman was not seen as being able to
compete with Dewey because Truman was too much like the common man and a
president was supposed to be exceptional in ability; to Bush the Lesser
being declared the winner of debates because Gore and Kerry were too
well informed and used that knowledge (which was not nice to Little
Georgie). With such a reactionary backlash against science and reason,
no wonder the country is in a sorry state.

[1] Cycling content: I was riding an upright, fixed gear, direct front
wheel drive and front wheel steering tricycle at the time. Due to the
lack of brakes, I almost ended up in the Cap Rouge River. ;)

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"People who had no mercy will find none." - Anon.

[Frank Krygowski]

On Jul 22, 4:35*am, Chalo <chalo.col...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> My earliest awareness of a president in any form was during the
> Watergate hearings. *...
>
> I guess that landed me in the first generation of Americans (of the
> twentieth century, anyway) who didn't have respect for the highest
> authority as OEM equipment.

Well, I'm old enough to have started with a genuine war general,
followed by a charismatic young guy who played touch football and had
an elegantly pretty wife. (We didn't hear about him having Marilyn
until later.) Viet Nam? Where's that, again?

A few years of Johnson & Viet Nam escalation really dimmed the
presidential luster. Then Nixon made skepticism permanent.

- Frank Krygowski

[Tom Sherman]

Tom Keats wrote:
> In article <g63jgi$9vh$1@registered.motzarella.org>,
> Tom Sherman <sunsetss0003@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> writes:
>
>>> Anyways, yer makin' me feel old.
>> Hey, I am a Trudeau baby.
>
> Pierre or Gary? And does the respective one know
> you're their baby?...
>
Maybe the expression is not used in BC to refer to the political leader
at the time one is born? Speaking of BC, I am actually a "Wacky" Bennett
baby.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"People who had no mercy will find none." - Anon.