Bicycle Commuting on the Rise

[Stephen Harding]

MSNBC and Today had a couple articles on the rise of
bicycle commuting in communities all across the US due
to the $4/gal gas prices.

Bike shops in the story said times have never been so
good with bike and bike accessory sales climbing 25-30
percent! People are dusting off the old steed hanging
in the garage or outright buying new bikes, as well as
the lights, fenders, bags and raincoats that go with
bicycle commuting.

Unfortunately, bike fatalities are also on the rise.
A couple communities reported the same number of deaths
so far this year as for all of last year.

Most of the deaths were due to bicyclists disobeying
traffic laws and in some areas, aggressive drivers that
won't share the road with bikes.

Wonder if Mike J has seen such a rise from the bike
buying public he serves?


SMH

[D_Frumious_B@ndersnat.ch]

Stephen Harding <smharding16@msn.com> wrote:
> MSNBC and Today had a couple articles on the rise of
> bicycle commuting in communities all across the US due
> to the $4/gal gas prices.

> Bike shops in the story said times have never been so
> good with bike and bike accessory sales climbing 25-30
> percent! People are dusting off the old steed hanging
> in the garage or outright buying new bikes, as well as
> the lights, fenders, bags and raincoats that go with
> bicycle commuting.

> Unfortunately, bike fatalities are also on the rise.
> A couple communities reported the same number of deaths
> so far this year as for all of last year.

> Most of the deaths were due to bicyclists disobeying
> traffic laws and in some areas, aggressive drivers that
> won't share the road with bikes.

This is also translating into occasional shortages of parts, and longer
waits for skilled service.
And around here, it's getting very crowded on light rail and commuter
trains - crowded with bikes, that is.
And you're right: there are a lot more Freds out there. I recently
saw a man who had to be over 300 lbs. riding the 24"-wheeled bike his
parents bought him when he was a kid. He was wearing all white, and he
looked like a marshmallow on a toothpick.
Worst of all is the rise in wrong-way riders.


Bill


__o | Roads aren't for cars. They're for people.
_`\(,_ |
(_)/ (_) |

[Mike Jacoubowsky]

| Wonder if Mike J has seen such a rise from the bike
| buying public he serves?

We're getting slammed pretty hard from all sides. It's not quite the panacea one would think. Shops in urban areas, with very high rents, wages & insurance costs, survive on a business model that depends upon selling a certain mix of merchandise. When we get inundated with what are "affectionately" known as BSOs (Bike Shaped Objects), we can quickly get into real trouble. Why? Because it can take a huge amount of time trying to run down parts for older bikes, and an even larger amount of time trying to explain to someone why that relic that they put away in the garage literally over 20 years ago (sometimes 30) isn't worth the time & expense to put back in one piece. And during that time you're dealing with the BSO, you're not taking care of the people who've been there helping you pay your bills, day in & day out.

I think the shops most at risk would be those that were already operating near capacity; those that weren't terribly busy before are probably quite happy right now. We're actively trying to find those shops and direct repair business to them, since it's been standing-room-only in our repair department for some time.

The toughest part is trying to do appropriate triage and figure out who's actually going to keep riding or whether we're looking at a boom/bust cycle like we saw during the last oil crisis (when it wasn't price, but availability causing difficulties for driving). Obviously, we need to do everything we can, while there's an awareness of cycling as an alternative to buying gas, to seize the day and improve the environment for cycling. That's what's needed to keep people on their bikes after they've gotten used to high gas prices and such.

Meantime, we're selling a ton of hybrids (they're such an easy sale these days we have a slogan at the shop- "Sell a hybrid, go to jail" and the only way out of jail is to sell something else), a large number of higher-end road bikes, slightly-weakening higher-end mountain bike sales, huge declines in cheaper mountain bikes (where the customers have moved over to more-appropriate hybrids, since most were never ridden off-road anyway) and moderate numbers of mid-priced road bikes. I'm wondering if the slightly-weaker higher-end mountain bike sales are a result of the gas prices, since people generally have to drive to decent places to ride off-road?

| Unfortunately, bike fatalities are also on the rise.
| A couple communities reported the same number of deaths
| so far this year as for all of last year.

My guess is that, as cyclists become more common on the roads, we'll see substantial decreases in the per-mile-ridden accident rate. It might be a slightly-lumpy road getting there, because inexperienced cyclists are more likely to get into trouble, plus there's a bit of road rage going on with those driving upset about high gas prices, not being able to hold their cell phones next to their ear (in California, but geez, we still let them text, eat their Big Mac and anything else that might allow them suitable distraction!), and, of course, annoyance at the increasing number of bikes on the road.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com




"Stephen Harding" <smharding16@msn.com> wrote in message news:1kGgk.156$_l.44@trnddc04...
| MSNBC and Today had a couple articles on the rise of
| bicycle commuting in communities all across the US due
| to the $4/gal gas prices.
|
| Bike shops in the story said times have never been so
| good with bike and bike accessory sales climbing 25-30
| percent! People are dusting off the old steed hanging
| in the garage or outright buying new bikes, as well as
| the lights, fenders, bags and raincoats that go with
| bicycle commuting.
|
| Unfortunately, bike fatalities are also on the rise.
| A couple communities reported the same number of deaths
| so far this year as for all of last year.
|
| Most of the deaths were due to bicyclists disobeying
| traffic laws and in some areas, aggressive drivers that
| won't share the road with bikes.
|
| Wonder if Mike J has seen such a rise from the bike
| buying public he serves?
|
|
| SMH

[Tom Sherman]

Stephen Harding wrote:
> MSNBC and Today had a couple articles on the rise of
> bicycle commuting in communities all across the US due
> to the $4/gal gas prices.
>
> Bike shops in the story said times have never been so
> good with bike and bike accessory sales climbing 25-30
> percent! People are dusting off the old steed hanging
> in the garage or outright buying new bikes, as well as
> the lights, fenders, bags and raincoats that go with
> bicycle commuting.
>
> Unfortunately, bike fatalities are also on the rise.
> A couple communities reported the same number of deaths
> so far this year as for all of last year.
>
> Most of the deaths were due to bicyclists disobeying
> traffic laws and in some areas, aggressive drivers that
> won't share the road with bikes.
>
> Wonder if Mike J has seen such a rise from the bike
> buying public he serves?
>
All the recently unemployed and the large numbers of soon to be
unemployed will not be buying new bicycles or riding them to work.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"People who had no mercy will find none." - Anon.

[SMS]

Stephen Harding wrote:
> MSNBC and Today had a couple articles on the rise of
> bicycle commuting in communities all across the US due
> to the $4/gal gas prices.
>
> Bike shops in the story said times have never been so
> good with bike and bike accessory sales climbing 25-30
> percent! People are dusting off the old steed hanging
> in the garage or outright buying new bikes, as well as
> the lights, fenders, bags and raincoats that go with
> bicycle commuting.

Yeah, I finally got the spousal unit to ride to work. It's nearly a one
mile commute for her! She wanted to ride one of the Bromptons, but park
it outside, which I vetoed. So she's riding a craigslist special, a $25
Univega hybrid with about $45 worth of upgrades (two new tires and a
new seat), plus of course some very good commute lights (Blackburn Mars
3.0 and the TaskForce Cree LED flashlight). The most important accessory
is the pants leg band, given out free at the Apple bike-to-work-day
refreshment stop.

> Unfortunately, bike fatalities are also on the rise.
> A couple communities reported the same number of deaths
> so far this year as for all of last year.

Yes, this has been a disturbing trend in my area.

> Most of the deaths were due to bicyclists disobeying
> traffic laws and in some areas, aggressive drivers that
> won't share the road with bikes.

And in my town, a sheriff's deputy that recklessly drove on the wrong
side of the road, killing two cyclists that were doing nothing wrong at all.

[Tom Keats]

In article <1kGgk.156$_l.44@trnddc04>,
Stephen Harding <smharding16@msn.com> writes:
> MSNBC and Today had a couple articles on the rise of
> bicycle commuting in communities all across the US due
> to the $4/gal gas prices.
>
> Bike shops in the story said times have never been so
> good with bike and bike accessory sales climbing 25-30
> percent! People are dusting off the old steed hanging
> in the garage or outright buying new bikes, as well as
> the lights, fenders, bags and raincoats that go with
> bicycle commuting.
>
> Unfortunately, bike fatalities are also on the rise.
> A couple communities reported the same number of deaths
> so far this year as for all of last year.
>
> Most of the deaths were due to bicyclists disobeying
> traffic laws and in some areas, aggressive drivers that
> won't share the road with bikes.
>
> Wonder if Mike J has seen such a rise from the bike
> buying public he serves?

Now that the price of gasoline has considerably dropped
and November is sneaking up on us, we'll see who's made
of what.


cheers,
Tom

--
Nothing is safe from me.
I'm really at:
tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

[Tom Keats]

In article <g5vi3g$8d1$1@news.xmission.com>,
D_Frumious_B@ndersnat.ch writes in part:

> And you're right: there are a lot more Freds out there. I recently
> saw a man who had to be over 300 lbs. riding the 24"-wheeled bike his
> parents bought him when he was a kid. He was wearing all white, and he
> looked like a marshmallow on a toothpick.

Thank Goodness he's riding at all.
I hope he continues.

I give him two thumbs up, five stars,
kudos, a "have a nice day" and a
G-d bless.

I bet he's a nice guy. He /must/ be --
he's riding a bike.


cheers,
Tom

--
Nothing is safe from me.
I'm really at:
tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

[Jym Dyer]

> When we get inundated with what are "affectionately" known
> as BSOs (Bike Shaped Objects), we can quickly get into real
> trouble. Why? Because it can take a huge amount of time trying
> to run down parts for older bikes, and an even larger amount
> of time trying to explain to someone why that relic that they
> put away in the garage literally over 20 years ago (sometimes
> 30) isn't worth the time & expense to put back in one piece.

=v= Over the years I've been involved with a number of community
bike programs, the idea being to get those clunkers fixed up so
that people can ride them, the goal being more bikes and bikers
on the road. We don't generally set up in snazzy locations, but
somehow we make do.

=v= 20-30 years is nothing. When Victor Papanek tried to come
up with a source of (re)building materials in developing nations
he thought of bikes because they are plentiful, but abandoned
the idea because even ancient bikes were still in use. (In his
book he refers to bikes that are 100 years old.)
<_Jym_>

[Pat]

My guess is that, as cyclists become more common on the roads, we'll see
substantial decreases in the per-mile-ridden accident rate. It might be a
slightly-lumpy road getting there, because inexperienced cyclists are more
likely to get into trouble, plus there's a bit of road rage going on with
those driving upset about high gas prices, not being able to hold their cell
phones next to their ear (in California, but geez, we still let them text,
eat their Big Mac and anything else that might allow them suitable
distraction!), and, of course, annoyance at the increasing number of bikes
on the road.

--Mike--

I agree with you about the mixture of good and bad with more bicycle riders
getting on the road. Yesterday, every single one I saw was either riding on
the sidewalk or riding against traffic. The guy riding against traffic was
in his 60's and my first thought was "He's old enough to know better!"

However, it is overall a good thing for all of these inexperienced riders
being out there because it is rapidly training motorists to watch out for
all cyclists. No doubt they will also come to appreciate cyclists who obey
traffic rules.

I can always tell the newbies: their knees hit their chins when they ride.

Pat in TX

[Tom Keats]

In article <g5vose$1ks$1@registered.motzarella.org>,
Tom Sherman <sunsetss0003@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> writes:

>> Wonder if Mike J has seen such a rise from the bike
>> buying public he serves?
>>
> All the recently unemployed and the large numbers of soon to be
> unemployed will not be buying new bicycles or riding them to work.

Wow, whadda Gloomy Gus. You remind me of an Andy Capp cartoon,
where Andy's drinkin' buddy says: "I'm an optimist -- I believe
we live in the best of all possible worlds."

Andy responds: "I'm a pessimist -- I believe we live in
the best of all possible worlds."

When I was destitute I had no problem acquiring bikes
by honest means. But then, I attract bikes like lonely
old ladies attract stray cats. Maybe the bikes aren't
brand spankin' new, but they're servicable, and often
downright lovely.

Worldwide, bikes still outnumber cars.

Austere folks should have no trouble acquiring bikes.
What's really needed is affordable bike trailers.


cheers,
Tom

--
Nothing is safe from me.
I'm really at:
tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

[Stephen Harding]

Tom Sherman wrote:

> All the recently unemployed and the large numbers of soon to be
> unemployed will not be buying new bicycles or riding them to work.

Perhaps Obama will institute a government program to provide
purchase assistance for people too poor or out of work to
afford a bike!

I have a feeling all our problems will disappear once the
evil Bush (tm) leaves office and Obama and Dems take over
next year, so such a program probably won't be needed.


SMH

[Mike Jacoubowsky]

=v= Over the years I've been involved with a number of community
| bike programs, the idea being to get those clunkers fixed up so
| that people can ride them, the goal being more bikes and bikers
| on the road. We don't generally set up in snazzy locations, but
| somehow we make do.

The more programs like that, the better. We donate a great amount of parts & abandoned & customer-donated bikes to a couple local programs. I'd guess that you can generally get two good bikes from every 3-4 abandoned, by cannibalizing good stuff off crashed bikes etc. It would be cool if we could see a return to what was common in the 70s, where kids would think it fun & practical to do such things on their own. Somewhere along the line, it became completely un-cool to do anything mechanical that didn't involve cars or trucks.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com


"Jym Dyer" <jym@econet.org> wrote in message news:Jym.20Jul2008.488367b8@scorcher.org...
|> When we get inundated with what are "affectionately" known
| > as BSOs (Bike Shaped Objects), we can quickly get into real
| > trouble. Why? Because it can take a huge amount of time trying
| > to run down parts for older bikes, and an even larger amount
| > of time trying to explain to someone why that relic that they
| > put away in the garage literally over 20 years ago (sometimes
| > 30) isn't worth the time & expense to put back in one piece.
|
| =v= Over the years I've been involved with a number of community
| bike programs, the idea being to get those clunkers fixed up so
| that people can ride them, the goal being more bikes and bikers
| on the road. We don't generally set up in snazzy locations, but
| somehow we make do.
|
| =v= 20-30 years is nothing. When Victor Papanek tried to come
| up with a source of (re)building materials in developing nations
| he thought of bikes because they are plentiful, but abandoned
| the idea because even ancient bikes were still in use. (In his
| book he refers to bikes that are 100 years old.)
| <_Jym_>
|

[dgk]

On Sun, 20 Jul 2008 11:44:20 -0500, "Pat" <moon@sunmaill.com> wrote:

....
>
>I can always tell the newbies: their knees hit their chins when they ride.
>
>Pat in TX
>


Great mental image.

[SMS]

Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
> =v= Over the years I've been involved with a number of community
> | bike programs, the idea being to get those clunkers fixed up so
> | that people can ride them, the goal being more bikes and bikers
> | on the road. We don't generally set up in snazzy locations, but
> | somehow we make do.
>
> The more programs like that, the better. We donate a great amount of parts & abandoned & customer-donated bikes to a couple local programs. I'd guess that you can generally get two good bikes from every 3-4 abandoned, by cannibalizing good stuff off crashed bikes etc. It would be cool if we could see a return to what was common in the 70s, where kids would think it fun & practical to do such things on their own. Somewhere along the line, it became completely un-cool to do anything mechanical that didn't involve cars or trucks.
>
> --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
> www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

Turn BSO problem to your advantage so the potential customer doesn't go
out the door without buying a bike. Explain to the customer that with
the cost of parts and labor it makes no sense for them to pay you to fix
up a BSO, but that there are two choices. First, a list of other places
that do bicycle repairs that you're unable to do because of time
constraints. Second, you've got a program set up to donate the BSOs to
community organizations where volunteers fix them up and give them to
whoever. If they donate the bike, give them $25 off a new bike and a
discount on accessories purchased within 30 days. The tax deduction for
the donation would cover part of the $25.

[D_Frumious_B@ndersnat.ch]

Tom Keats <tkeats2005@hotmail.com> wrote:
> In article <g5vi3g$8d1$1@news.xmission.com>,
> D_Frumious_B@ndersnat.ch writes in part:

> > And you're right: there are a lot more Freds out there. I recently
> > saw a man who had to be over 300 lbs. riding the 24"-wheeled bike his
> > parents bought him when he was a kid. He was wearing all white, and he
> > looked like a marshmallow on a toothpick.

> Thank Goodness he's riding at all.
> I hope he continues.

> I give him two thumbs up, five stars,
> kudos, a "have a nice day" and a
> G-d bless.

> I bet he's a nice guy. He /must/ be --
> he's riding a bike.

I kept my chuckle to myself. Still, with a bike that ill-suited to his
needs, I doubt that he kept riding.

Bill

__o | Get a bicycle. You will not regret it, if you live.
_`\(,_ |
(_)/ (_) | -- Mark Twain

[Tom Sherman]

Tom Keats wrote:
> In article <g5vose$1ks$1@registered.motzarella.org>,
> Tom Sherman <sunsetss0003@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> writes:
>
>>> Wonder if Mike J has seen such a rise from the bike
>>> buying public he serves?
>>>
>> All the recently unemployed and the large numbers of soon to be
>> unemployed will not be buying new bicycles or riding them to work.
>
> Wow, whadda Gloomy Gus. You remind me of an Andy Capp cartoon,
> where Andy's drinkin' buddy says: "I'm an optimist -- I believe
> we live in the best of all possible worlds."
>
> Andy responds: "I'm a pessimist -- I believe we live in
> the best of all possible worlds."
>
Well, the industry in which I work has practically collapsed, with only
current projects being completed. New projects are being canceled or put
on hold left and right.

> When I was destitute I had no problem acquiring bikes
> by honest means. But then, I attract bikes like lonely
> old ladies attract stray cats. Maybe the bikes aren't
> brand spankin' new, but they're servicable, and often
> downright lovely.
>
Please note that I wrote the "soon to be unemployed will not be buying
NEW bicycles" (caps added).

The unemployed will also, by definition, NOT be commuting.

> Worldwide, bikes still outnumber cars.
>
> Austere folks should have no trouble acquiring bikes.
> What's really needed is affordable bike trailers.
>

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"People who had no mercy will find none." - Anon.

[D_Frumious_B@ndersnat.ch]

Tom Keats <tkeats2005@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Austere folks should have no trouble acquiring bikes.
> What's really needed is affordable bike trailers.

You ain't a-kiddin', brother. I was just looking at trailers on eBay
and rei.com. I saw a Burley d'Lite kid hauler (new) priced at $575!
I wish I owned Burley stock.


Bill


__o | When gas hit $3 a gallon,
[ ]___`\(,_ | People stopped asking why,
(_) (_)/ (_) | And asked, "Where can I get one?"

[Frank Krygowski]

On Jul 21, 2:52*am, SMS <scharf.ste...@geemail.com> wrote:
>
> Yeah, I finally got the spousal unit to ride to work. It's nearly a one
> mile commute for her! She wanted to ride one of the Bromptons, but park
> it outside, which I vetoed. So she's riding a craigslist special, a $25
> Univega hybrid with about $45 worth of upgrades (two new tires and a
> new seat), plus of course some very good commute lights (Blackburn Mars
> 3.0 and the TaskForce Cree LED flashlight).

She works night shift?

- Frank Krygowski

[Tom Sherman]

SMS aka Steven M. Scharf wrote:
> ...
> Yeah, I finally got the spousal unit to ride to work. It's nearly a one
> mile commute for her! She wanted to ride one of the Bromptons, but park
> it outside, which I vetoed....

That makes no sense - the best reason to get a very compact folder like
a Brompton or BF Tikit is to avoid the theft problem by taking it inside
with you.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"People who had no mercy will find none." - Anon.

[Tom Sherman]

Stephen Harding wrote:
> Tom Sherman wrote:
>
>> All the recently unemployed and the large numbers of soon to be
>> unemployed will not be buying new bicycles or riding them to work.
>
> Perhaps Obama will institute a government program to provide
> purchase assistance for people too poor or out of work to
> afford a bike!
>
> I have a feeling all our problems will disappear once the
> evil Bush (tm) leaves office and Obama and Dems take over
> next year, so such a program probably won't be needed.
>
Unless Obama institutes a New Deal type program, unemployment could well
be an issue. The financial section meltdown caused by too few people
having too much money and therefore using it to speculate (i.e. gamble)
is having a trickle down effect on many other sectors.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"People who had no mercy will find none." - Anon.

[SMS]

Stephen Harding wrote:
> Tom Sherman wrote:
>
>> All the recently unemployed and the large numbers of soon to be
>> unemployed will not be buying new bicycles or riding them to work.
>
> Perhaps Obama will institute a government program to provide
> purchase assistance for people too poor or out of work to
> afford a bike!
>
> I have a feeling all our problems will disappear once the
> evil Bush (tm) leaves office and Obama and Dems take over
> next year, so such a program probably won't be needed.

It will take decades to recover from what the Republicans have done in
eight short years, so don't expect the problems to instantly disappear.

[dgk]

On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 11:37:29 GMT, Stephen Harding
<smharding16@msn.com> wrote:

>Tom Sherman wrote:
>
>> All the recently unemployed and the large numbers of soon to be
>> unemployed will not be buying new bicycles or riding them to work.
>
>Perhaps Obama will institute a government program to provide
>purchase assistance for people too poor or out of work to
>afford a bike!
>
>I have a feeling all our problems will disappear once the
>evil Bush (tm) leaves office and Obama and Dems take over
>next year, so such a program probably won't be needed.
>
>
>SMH
>

As long as we keep feeding the military-industrial complex, there
won't be money for anything else.

[Pat]

> Tom Sherman wrote:
>
>> All the recently unemployed and the large numbers of soon to be
>> unemployed will not be buying new bicycles or riding them to work.
>
> Perhaps Obama will institute a government program to provide
> purchase assistance for people too poor or out of work to
> afford a bike!
>
> I have a feeling all our problems will disappear once the
> evil Bush (tm) leaves office and Obama and Dems take over
> next year, so such a program probably won't be needed.
>
>
> SMH

Oh give it a rest---unless you are willing to defend every single thing that
Bush and Co. have done to us in the last 8 years!

Pat in TX
>
>

[Tom Sherman]

SMS aka Steven M. Scharf wrote:
> Stephen Harding wrote:
>> Tom Sherman wrote:
>>
>>> All the recently unemployed and the large numbers of soon to be
>>> unemployed will not be buying new bicycles or riding them to work.
>>
>> Perhaps Obama will institute a government program to provide
>> purchase assistance for people too poor or out of work to
>> afford a bike!
>>
>> I have a feeling all our problems will disappear once the
>> evil Bush (tm) leaves office and Obama and Dems take over
>> next year, so such a program probably won't be needed.
>
> It will take decades to recover from what the Republicans have done in
> eight short years, so don't expect the problems to instantly disappear.

Oh my, I agree with SMS!

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"People who had no mercy will find none." - Anon.

[Mike Jacoubowsky]

"SMS" <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote in message
news:U00hk.6334$cn7.59@flpi145.ffdc.sbc.com...
> Stephen Harding wrote:
>> Tom Sherman wrote:
>>
>>> All the recently unemployed and the large numbers of soon to be
>>> unemployed will not be buying new bicycles or riding them to work.
>>
>> Perhaps Obama will institute a government program to provide
>> purchase assistance for people too poor or out of work to
>> afford a bike!
>>
>> I have a feeling all our problems will disappear once the
>> evil Bush (tm) leaves office and Obama and Dems take over
>> next year, so such a program probably won't be needed.
>
> It will take decades to recover from what the Republicans have done in
> eight short years, so don't expect the problems to instantly disappear.

Only Oberstar (Chairman of the House transportation committee) has the guts
to be talking about a gas tax increase to fund roads & transit projects,
which is MUCH more than I can say for either of the leading candidates at
the moment. At least Obama didn't fall for the McCain/Clinton idea of
suspending gas taxes during the summer.

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

[Stephen Harding]

SMS wrote:
> Stephen Harding wrote:
>
>> Tom Sherman wrote:
>>
>>> All the recently unemployed and the large numbers of soon to be
>>> unemployed will not be buying new bicycles or riding them to work.
>>
>>
>> Perhaps Obama will institute a government program to provide
>> purchase assistance for people too poor or out of work to
>> afford a bike!
>>
>> I have a feeling all our problems will disappear once the
>> evil Bush (tm) leaves office and Obama and Dems take over
>> next year, so such a program probably won't be needed.
>
>
> It will take decades to recover from what the Republicans have done in
> eight short years, so don't expect the problems to instantly disappear.

Yes.

We heard the same predictions about the "evil Reagan" (tm) as well.


SMH

[Pat]

>
> Turn BSO problem to your advantage so the potential customer doesn't go
> out the door without buying a bike. Explain to the customer that with the
> cost of parts and labor it makes no sense for them to pay you to fix up a
> BSO, but that there are two choices. First, a list of other places that do
> bicycle repairs that you're unable to do because of time constraints.
> Second, you've got a program set up to donate the BSOs to community
> organizations where volunteers fix them up and give them to whoever. If
> they donate the bike, give them $25 off a new bike and a discount on
> accessories purchased within 30 days. The tax deduction for the donation
> would cover part of the $25.

I wish this would work, but I'm skeptical. People today are so distrustful.
I can just hear a guy saying "They're just trying to sucker me into buying a
new bike! What a bunch of crooks!"

Pat in TX

[Mike Jacoubowsky]

"Pat" <moon@sunmaill.com> wrote in message news:6ejo91F7f2bkU1@mid.individual.net...
|
| >
| > Turn BSO problem to your advantage so the potential customer doesn't go
| > out the door without buying a bike. Explain to the customer that with the
| > cost of parts and labor it makes no sense for them to pay you to fix up a
| > BSO, but that there are two choices. First, a list of other places that do
| > bicycle repairs that you're unable to do because of time constraints.
| > Second, you've got a program set up to donate the BSOs to community
| > organizations where volunteers fix them up and give them to whoever. If
| > they donate the bike, give them $25 off a new bike and a discount on
| > accessories purchased within 30 days. The tax deduction for the donation
| > would cover part of the $25.
|
| I wish this would work, but I'm skeptical. People today are so distrustful.
| I can just hear a guy saying "They're just trying to sucker me into buying a
| new bike! What a bunch of crooks!"
|
| Pat in TX

Pat: Don't worry, we're used to that. It already happens anytime you quote a repair for a bike that exceeds maybe 20% of the purchase price, which is very often the case for a BSO.

SMS's idea of a $25 credit for turning in a BSO isn't bad, except for the storage problem. Keep in mind that at least half of the BSOs are way too far gone to be of much use, so basically for $25 we're saving them a trip to the dump. Those who recycle the bikes are relatively picky about what they'll take, which is entirely reasonable. I would be, too. You've only got so much time & space, so you want to make the best of it.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com




"Pat" <moon@sunmaill.com> wrote in message news:6ejo91F7f2bkU1@mid.individual.net...
|
| >
| > Turn BSO problem to your advantage so the potential customer doesn't go
| > out the door without buying a bike. Explain to the customer that with the
| > cost of parts and labor it makes no sense for them to pay you to fix up a
| > BSO, but that there are two choices. First, a list of other places that do
| > bicycle repairs that you're unable to do because of time constraints.
| > Second, you've got a program set up to donate the BSOs to community
| > organizations where volunteers fix them up and give them to whoever. If
| > they donate the bike, give them $25 off a new bike and a discount on
| > accessories purchased within 30 days. The tax deduction for the donation
| > would cover part of the $25.
|
| I wish this would work, but I'm skeptical. People today are so distrustful.
| I can just hear a guy saying "They're just trying to sucker me into buying a
| new bike! What a bunch of crooks!"
|
| Pat in TX
|
|

[SMS]

Pat wrote:

> I wish this would work, but I'm skeptical. People today are so distrustful.
> I can just hear a guy saying "They're just trying to sucker me into buying a
> new bike! What a bunch of crooks!"

It's all in the delivery.

If you give them a list of bicycle repair shops that they can take it
to, maybe some printed instructions on how to do simple jobs themselves
(replace a cable, replace a chain, replace a tire), along with a coupon
if they want to donate the old bike and get a small discount on a new
bike, you can avoid alienating them, you can turn it to your advantage.
You need to be low-key and not pressure them. Maybe you can sell them
some parts, maybe they'll be back to buy a bike another day if they're
treated well.

Personally, I find signs on the door of shops telling people to take
their bicycles elsewhere for repair if they didn't buy them at the shop,
to convey a bad impression. It's like If I didn't know from personal
experience that the shop wasn't like that at all, I'd never come back. I
know Chain Reaction is the total opposite of that, but every time I see
that sign I think that there must be a better way to handle the issue.

[Guy Anderson, Sr.]

On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 09:19:10 -0700, "Mike Jacoubowsky"
<mikej1@ix.netcom.com> wrote:

>
>Pat: Don't worry, we're used to that. It already happens anytime you quote a repair for a bike that exceeds maybe 20% of the purchase price, which is very often the case for a BSO.
>
>SMS's idea of a $25 credit for turning in a BSO isn't bad, except for the storage problem. Keep in mind that at least half of the BSOs are way too far gone to be of much use, so basically for $25 we're saving them a trip to the dump. Those who recycle the bikes are relatively picky about what they'll take, which is entirely reasonable. I would be, too. You've only got so much time & space, so you want to make the best of it.
Mike,

I think that you need to reset your newsreader's line length.

[SMS]

Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:

> Pat: Don't worry, we're used to that. It already happens anytime you quote a repair for a bike that exceeds maybe 20% of the purchase price, which is very often the case for a BSO.
>
> SMS's idea of a $25 credit for turning in a BSO isn't bad, except for the storage problem. Keep in mind that at least half of the BSOs are way too far gone to be of much use, so basically for $25 we're saving them a trip to the dump. Those who recycle the bikes are relatively picky about what they'll take, which is entirely reasonable. I would be, too. You've only got so much time & space, so you want to make the best of it.

Heh, walk around Stanford sometime and see all the BSO's that are way
far gone still being ridden. Like that beautiful Matthew's Top of the
Hill Daly City Firenze that I saw earlier this year,
"http://nordicgroup.us/firenze/firenze1.jpg" &
"http://nordicgroup.us/firenze/firenze2.jpg"

I was talking to guy from the now defunct Major Taylor Cycling Club who
said that they had the same issue with repairing old bikes, which was
the parts availability problem. They had other issues too, with some of
the volunteers being problem people, and stolen tools.

In any case, it's just good marketing to figure a way to gently let the
BSO owner know the facts, and present him or her with choices that will
hopefully keep them out of the Target or Wal-Mart bike department at the
very least.

[Mike Jacoubowsky]

> Personally, I find signs on the door of shops telling people to take their
> bicycles elsewhere for repair if they didn't buy them at the shop, to
> convey a bad impression. It's like If I didn't know from personal
> experience that the shop wasn't like that at all, I'd never come back. I
> know Chain Reaction is the total opposite of that, but every time I see
> that sign I think that there must be a better way to handle the issue.

I agree 100%, but have yet to figure out what the solution is. My #1 concern
is to inconvenience people as little as possible, and that sign can help
when we're closed or when it's standing-room-only in the store and might
take some time to get to people. Still, that's not really the reason it's
there.

The real reason is that when it wasn't, I'd get more than an earful from
people asking why we didn't have a sign saying that.

But you are correct that negative signs in general should be avoided, just
as it's a bad thing to start a conversation by telling someone "no." For
example, we will take in minor emergency repairs on bikes we haven't sold,
such as flat tires and new chains. So when someone asks if we do repairs, we
should start by saying that we can handle flat tires and new chains or
something similarly minor, but for major repairs, we're only able to
schedule bikes we've sold, until we get our backlog down. That comes across
better than telling someone no, we can't work on their bike.

29 years of owning a shop and you'd think I'd have things figured out better
by now. Unquestionably, the shop suffers because I may be fairly creative
and helpful, but I'm terribly disorganized.

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA




"SMS" <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote in message
news:0K2hk.2416$zv7.918@flpi143.ffdc.sbc.com...
> Pat wrote:
>
>> I wish this would work, but I'm skeptical. People today are so
>> distrustful. I can just hear a guy saying "They're just trying to sucker
>> me into buying a new bike! What a bunch of crooks!"
>
> It's all in the delivery.
>
> If you give them a list of bicycle repair shops that they can take it to,
> maybe some printed instructions on how to do simple jobs themselves
> (replace a cable, replace a chain, replace a tire), along with a coupon if
> they want to donate the old bike and get a small discount on a new bike,
> you can avoid alienating them, you can turn it to your advantage. You need
> to be low-key and not pressure them. Maybe you can sell them some parts,
> maybe they'll be back to buy a bike another day if they're treated well.
>
> Personally, I find signs on the door of shops telling people to take their
> bicycles elsewhere for repair if they didn't buy them at the shop, to
> convey a bad impression. It's like If I didn't know from personal
> experience that the shop wasn't like that at all, I'd never come back. I
> know Chain Reaction is the total opposite of that, but every time I see
> that sign I think that there must be a better way to handle the issue.

[Tom Sherman]

D_Frumious_B@ndersnat.ch wrote:
> Tom Keats <tkeats2005@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Austere folks should have no trouble acquiring bikes.
>> What's really needed is affordable bike trailers.
>
> You ain't a-kiddin', brother. I was just looking at trailers on eBay
> and rei.com. I saw a Burley d'Lite kid hauler (new) priced at $575!
> I wish I owned Burley stock.
>
I understand that Burley almost went under financially, and the co-op
had to sell out to a new owner:
<http://rgweb.registerguard.com/news/2006/09/17/ed.col.burley.0917.p1.php?section=opinion>.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"People who had no mercy will find none." - Anon.

[Tom Keats]

In article <g62gr2$b79$1@news.xmission.com>,
D_Frumious_B@ndersnat.ch writes:
> Tom Keats <tkeats2005@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Austere folks should have no trouble acquiring bikes.
>> What's really needed is affordable bike trailers.
>
> You ain't a-kiddin', brother. I was just looking at trailers on eBay
> and rei.com. I saw a Burley d'Lite kid hauler (new) priced at $575!
> I wish I owned Burley stock.

There are some online plans & designs for inexpensive
homebrew trailers, but even those often require resources
that not everybody has at their avail.

I'm almost inclined to mfg and market affordable trailers,
made as much as possible from sustainable materials,
myself. That might be a pretty good selling point.

I luvs my Leggero Max, but it has a lot of plastic
on it.

Woven willow can be a strong, light, elegant and
aesthetically pleasing medium. Actually I'd like
to concoct something out of our Pacific NorthWest
vine maple.

Heh. Drawknife Trailers. Almost has a ring to it.
Except it sounds a little too much like "jackknife,"
which is a bad thing where trailers are concerned.

"Organic Trailers" might be more marketable.


cheers,
Tom

--
Nothing is safe from me.
I'm really at:
tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

[SMS]

D_Frumious_B@ndersnat.ch wrote:
> Tom Keats <tkeats2005@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Austere folks should have no trouble acquiring bikes.
>> What's really needed is affordable bike trailers.
>
> You ain't a-kiddin', brother. I was just looking at trailers on eBay
> and rei.com. I saw a Burley d'Lite kid hauler (new) priced at $575!
> I wish I owned Burley stock.

Plus the new d'Lite is significantly worse than the earlier design, with
the outrigger frame eliminated.

I'd get the Schwinn Mark III for $280, see "http://tinyurl.com/5ne5wr".
It still has the outrigger frame.

[SMS]

Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:

> I agree 100%, but have yet to figure out what the solution is. My #1 concern
> is to inconvenience people as little as possible, and that sign can help
> when we're closed or when it's standing-room-only in the store and might
> take some time to get to people. Still, that's not really the reason it's
> there.

Copy the idea of the Homeland Security Threat Levels and make a new sign
along these lines:

Repair Shop Status

Green: All Repairs Accepted, < 1 Week Turnaround
Blue: All Repairs Accepted, > 1 Week Turnaround
Yellow: Minor Repairs Accepted (chains, flats, brake adjustments, ...),
No major repairs (wheel truing, frame repair, ....) accepted*
Red: No Repairs Accepted*

* Except on Bicycles Purchased Here

Hand the appropriate color on the sign each day.

By the way, I'm curious as to what constitutes a "major repair" and why
there are so many of them.

[David L. Johnson]

SMS wrote:

> Heh, walk around Stanford sometime and see all the BSO's that are way
> far gone still being ridden. Like that beautiful Matthew's Top of the
> Hill Daly City Firenze that I saw earlier this year,
> "http://nordicgroup.us/firenze/firenze1.jpg" &
> "http://nordicgroup.us/firenze/firenze2.jpg"

It amazes me that in a culture, either in the US or Europe, that
stresses having new everything every few years, the bikes that you see
being ridden for commuting purposes average 25+ years old. People who
would not think of wearing last season's clothes ride around on bikes
older than they are. Curious. Maybe this says something about the
subset of the culture that actually rides bikes for transportation.

About half the commuting bikes in Spain that I noticed were "bike boom"
10-speeds, from back when that meant a 5-speed cluster and a double.
The 1-speeds and 3-speeds tend to be older still. In the US, the
commuter bikes are split between the '70s Schwinns and fake mountain
bikes of indeterminate age.

Of course, my own commuter bike is a '69 Frejus turned into a
single-speed, with my fixed gear '72 Schroeder for nice days, and a
weird rigid mountain bike for snow/ice.

--

David L. Johnson

"Business!" cried the Ghost. "Mankind was my business. The common
welfare was my business; charity, mercy, forbearance, and benevolence,
were, all, my business. The dealings of my trade were but a drop of
water in the comprehensive ocean of my business!"
--Dickens, "A Christmas Carol"

[Frank Krygowski]

On Jul 22, 12:13*am, "David L. Johnson" <david.john...@lehigh.edu>
wrote:
> *People who
> would not think of wearing last season's clothes ride around on bikes
> older than they are.

Oh, come on. My commuter is a 1972 Raleigh. I'm _much_ older than
that! ;-)

> *Curious. *Maybe this says something about the
> subset of the culture that actually rides bikes for transportation.

Maybe - as I sit here in clothes I bought in 2003...

- Frank Krygowski

[SMS]

David L. Johnson wrote:

> It amazes me that in a culture, either in the US or Europe, that
> stresses having new everything every few years, the bikes that you see
> being ridden for commuting purposes average 25+ years old. People who
> would not think of wearing last season's clothes ride around on bikes
> older than they are. Curious. Maybe this says something about the
> subset of the culture that actually rides bikes for transportation.

I see two distinct sub-sets of bicycle commuters in my area.
Professional/technical people and Mexican workers.

Some of the former buy a Breezer or one of the REI commute bikes, but
most are riding older, good quality bikes, converted to commute bikes.
Frugality seems to be rampant. I do not see a lot of conspicuous
consumption in terms of cars, bicycles, or boats in my area. One retired
couple just got two bike fridays, one guy just bought a Bianchi steel
road bike, but I don't see the multi-thousand dollar road bikes or many
high-end commute bikes. Maybe with the housing costs no one can afford
to buy fancy cars or bikes. Maybe it's all the single people that don't
live around my neighborhood that are buying all the expensive bikes.

The other issue is that the older bikes tend to be more easily converted
to a suitable commute bike than the newer bikes. For a commute bike you
want to be able to attack racks and fenders, have clearance for wider
tires, have sufficient water bottle braze-ons, want a longer wheelbase,
and want to be able to raise the handlebars. A lot of the newer road
bikes are totally unsuited to making into a commute bike.

[Tom Keats]

In article <u_qdnUeDq6zDwxjVnZ2dnUVZ_oTinZ2d@rcn.net>,
"David L. Johnson" <david.johnson@lehigh.edu> writes:
> SMS wrote:
>
>> Heh, walk around Stanford sometime and see all the BSO's that are way
>> far gone still being ridden. Like that beautiful Matthew's Top of the
>> Hill Daly City Firenze that I saw earlier this year,
>> "http://nordicgroup.us/firenze/firenze1.jpg" &
>> "http://nordicgroup.us/firenze/firenze2.jpg"
>
> It amazes me that in a culture, either in the US or Europe, that
> stresses having new everything every few years, the bikes that you see
> being ridden for commuting purposes average 25+ years old. People who
> would not think of wearing last season's clothes ride around on bikes
> older than they are. Curious. Maybe this says something about the
> subset of the culture that actually rides bikes for transportation.

Maybe just some parts (frames) of those bikes are so old.
My own main whip is nothing at all like the '80s make &
model indicated by the frame decals. But at a glance it
doesn't look much different from its ancestoral roots.
It currently sports a couple of new wheels of mismatched
manufacture and design, new handlebar, Victor (VP) platform
pedals purchased new a decade ago, a fork swapped-in from
another contemporary frame, a stem swapped-in from slightly
later model but similar bike, etc. I might have replaced
the orig ExAge rear der; I forget. The old Sugino AT triple
crankset/BB that was on the bike when I got it back in 2001
is still going strong, but I've been giving as meticulous
care to it, as other people give to just their chains.

Keeping older bikes going is a trivial matter. There still
are many new replacement parts available, as well as salvage
from older, discarded bikes.

> About half the commuting bikes in Spain that I noticed were "bike boom"
> 10-speeds, from back when that meant a 5-speed cluster and a double.
> The 1-speeds and 3-speeds tend to be older still.

I guess bikes don't have expiration dates.
Bicycles are pretty tough machines. They just
refuse to crumble into a pile of powdered
metal oxide.

We humans are weird: we're perfectly willing to forsake
some things to get the newer, better, more-featured version
(like cell phones,) and yet to other things we remain
adamantly attached. Especially if they're things that
provide comfort, like a well broken-in pair of shoes.
I think we as a culture go through microwave ovens
way too much.

I've got a few "10-speeds" myself. Those 5-cog, 14-28
Hyperglide freewheels are still readily available,
although you might have to settle for the champagne ones.

> In the US, the
> commuter bikes are split between the '70s Schwinns and fake mountain
> bikes of indeterminate age.
>
> Of course, my own commuter bike is a '69 Frejus turned into a
> single-speed, with my fixed gear '72 Schroeder for nice days, and a
> weird rigid mountain bike for snow/ice.

In Vancouver, commuter bikes run the gamut of configs & styles,
including lots of death-defying '70s Bike Boom bikes, quite a
few old Raleigh sports (mostly step-through frames,) brand new,
hoighty-toity, newfangled, Euro-ish "urban" bikes, curvy-tubed
croozers with those horrid Yankee bars, [MT]BSOs w/ cheesy
suspension forks, etc.

Factory-built choppers had a fleeting kick at the can, but they're
more-or-less out of our hair now, and I almost want one, now that
they're an endangered species. But what am I, a museum curator?
I hope not. I'm running out of storage space.


cheers,
Tom
















--
Nothing is safe from me.
I'm really at:
tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

[John Kane]

On Jul 22, 10:21*am, Frank Krygowski <frkry...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jul 22, 12:13*am, "David L. Johnson" <david.john...@lehigh.edu>
> wrote:
>
> > **People who
> > would not think of wearing last season's clothes ride around on bikes
> > older than they are.
>
> Oh, come on. *My commuter is a 1972 Raleigh. *I'm _much_ older than
> that! *;-)
>
> > *Curious. *Maybe this says something about the
> > subset of the culture that actually rides bikes for transportation.
>
> Maybe - as I sit here in clothes I bought in 2003...
>
> - Frank Krygowski

Check around. I see a good number of 1970's bikes around here riden by
people who are not over 25.

John Kane Kingston ON Canada

[David L. Johnson]

Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On Jul 22, 12:13 am, "David L. Johnson" <david.john...@lehigh.edu>
> wrote:
>> People who
>> would not think of wearing last season's clothes ride around on bikes
>> older than they are.
>
> Oh, come on. My commuter is a 1972 Raleigh. I'm _much_ older than
> that! ;-)
>
>> Curious. Maybe this says something about the
>> subset of the culture that actually rides bikes for transportation.
>
> Maybe - as I sit here in clothes I bought in 2003...

Which are much newer, and more stylish, than your bikes, right?

--

David L. Johnson

Let's not escape into mathematics. Let's stay with reality.
-- Michael Crichton

[SMS]

Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:

> Only Oberstar (Chairman of the House transportation committee) has the guts
> to be talking about a gas tax increase to fund roads & transit projects,
> which is MUCH more than I can say for either of the leading candidates at
> the moment. At least Obama didn't fall for the McCain/Clinton idea of
> suspending gas taxes during the summer.

Surprisingly the idea didn't gain any traction; in a world where voters
always are demanding more services and lower taxes this is a promising
sign. Of course it would political suicide for either candidate to be
honest about the need to do something about the highway trust fund deficit.

In any case, small increases in the gasoline tax doesn't mean a penny
for penny increase in gasoline prices. The gasoline price is set by the
market. I remember the 10 cent increase in California a decade or so
ago. The retail gasoline price immediately went up by 10 cents, but
within two months the price was back to where it was before, with the
oil companies and refineries lowering their margins in order to reduce
the price and increase consumption.

[Frank Krygowski]

On Jul 22, 11:48*pm, "David L. Johnson" <david.john...@lehigh.edu>
wrote:
> Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > On Jul 22, 12:13 am, "David L. Johnson" <david.john...@lehigh.edu>
> > wrote:
> >> * People who
> >> would not think of wearing last season's clothes ride around on bikes
> >> older than they are.
>
> > Oh, come on. *My commuter is a 1972 Raleigh. *I'm _much_ older than
> > that! *;-)
>
> >> *Curious. *Maybe this says something about the
> >> subset of the culture that actually rides bikes for transportation.
>
> > Maybe - as I sit here in clothes I bought in 2003...
>
> Which are much newer, and more stylish, than your bikes, right?

Hmm. Tough call!

Regarding "newness," those clothes are probably a tie with my newest
bike, a Bike Friday New World Tourist. Is a Friday stylish or not? I
can't tell.

I think all my bikes are very unstylish, but others may weirdly
disagree. Two incidents:

One was when I was getting new tires on my car. I rode my commuting
bike over to pick up the car when it was done. This is the '72
Raleigh with fenders, racks, generator lights, huge homemade handlebar
bag, bell, etc. The counter kid actually came out to rave about my
bike. He was _very_ impressed.

The other was when I bought an ancient, used DaHon folder on a
vacation whim. That same day, as my wife went cute-store-shopping in
a tiny tourist town, I unfolded the bike to try it out. I soon found
myself riding through a crowd of teenaged sk8ters and BMX freestylers,
all looking stylishly jaded in their saggy pants and such.

I figured I looked like a grey-bearded bear on a circus bike, and
wondered what kind of jeers I'd receive. But what I heard was:
"Wow. That is the coolest bike I've ever seen!"

- Frank Krygowski

[Mike Jacoubowsky]

| > Only Oberstar (Chairman of the House transportation committee) has the guts
| > to be talking about a gas tax increase to fund roads & transit projects,
| > which is MUCH more than I can say for either of the leading candidates at
| > the moment. At least Obama didn't fall for the McCain/Clinton idea of
| > suspending gas taxes during the summer.
|
| Surprisingly the idea didn't gain any traction; in a world where voters
| always are demanding more services and lower taxes this is a promising
| sign. Of course it would political suicide for either candidate to be
| honest about the need to do something about the highway trust fund deficit.
|
| In any case, small increases in the gasoline tax doesn't mean a penny
| for penny increase in gasoline prices. The gasoline price is set by the
| market. I remember the 10 cent increase in California a decade or so
| ago. The retail gasoline price immediately went up by 10 cents, but
| within two months the price was back to where it was before, with the
| oil companies and refineries lowering their margins in order to reduce
| the price and increase consumption.

Exactly! The maximum amount that someone is willing to pay for gas at a given time is still determined by the user. People don't get this. Actually, the oil companies *do* get this, and to the extent that it's practical, they play with prices and allow them to rise to very high levels until they start to see demand decline, and then, somehow, regardless of what goes on at the wholesale level, the prices fall back. Funny how that is. Unfortunately, the current situation is such that the minimum base price (with no profit for the oil company) is now considerably higher than retail prices were not that long ago. But once things settle down, if there's an increase in the tax on gasoline, it may have very little effect on the retail price of that gas.

Of course, if the tax is high enough that it goes beyond taking a bite from the oil companies bottom line, it will decrease demand, and if that had been done some years ago, gas prices might not be anywhere near as high as they are now. For that matter, the auto companies are probably now thinking they made a serious mistake when they lobbied to emasculate the vehicle gas standards, allowing them to continue to focus on big heavy gas-guzzling vehicles.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com


"SMS" <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote in message news:M5Ehk.16207$uE5.13618@flpi144.ffdc.sbc.com...
| Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
|
| > Only Oberstar (Chairman of the House transportation committee) has the guts
| > to be talking about a gas tax increase to fund roads & transit projects,
| > which is MUCH more than I can say for either of the leading candidates at
| > the moment. At least Obama didn't fall for the McCain/Clinton idea of
| > suspending gas taxes during the summer.
|
| Surprisingly the idea didn't gain any traction; in a world where voters
| always are demanding more services and lower taxes this is a promising
| sign. Of course it would political suicide for either candidate to be
| honest about the need to do something about the highway trust fund deficit.
|
| In any case, small increases in the gasoline tax doesn't mean a penny
| for penny increase in gasoline prices. The gasoline price is set by the
| market. I remember the 10 cent increase in California a decade or so
| ago. The retail gasoline price immediately went up by 10 cents, but
| within two months the price was back to where it was before, with the
| oil companies and refineries lowering their margins in order to reduce
| the price and increase consumption.

[John Kane]

On Jul 23, 10:02*am, Frank Krygowski <frkry...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jul 22, 11:48*pm, "David L. Johnson" <david.john...@lehigh.edu>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > > On Jul 22, 12:13 am, "David L. Johnson" <david.john...@lehigh.edu>
> > > wrote:
> > >> * People who
> > >> would not think of wearing last season's clothes ride around on bikes
> > >> older than they are.
>
> > > Oh, come on. *My commuter is a 1972 Raleigh. *I'm _much_ older than
> > > that! *;-)
>
> > >> *Curious. *Maybe this says something about the
> > >> subset of the culture that actually rides bikes for transportation.
>
> > > Maybe - as I sit here in clothes I bought in 2003...
>
> > Which are much newer, and more stylish, than your bikes, right?
>
> Hmm. *Tough call!
>
> Regarding "newness," those clothes are probably a tie with my newest
> bike, a Bike Friday New World Tourist. *Is a Friday stylish or not? *I
> can't tell.

A Bike Friday is a fashion statement. As such, it really only
impresses the coglosenti but they are VERY impressed. Of course you
also need the spandex and the Bollé glasses.

John Kane Kingson ON Canada

[Frank Krygowski]

On Jul 23, 4:26*pm, John Kane <jrkrid...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jul 23, 10:02*am, Frank Krygowski <frkry...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> > Regarding "newness," those clothes are probably a tie with my newest
> > bike, a Bike Friday New World Tourist. *Is a Friday stylish or not? *I
> > can't tell.
>
> A Bike Friday is a fashion statement. *As such, it really only
> impresses the coglosenti but they are VERY impressed. *Of course you
> also need the spandex and the Bollé glasses.

Well, then, I guess I'm still not fashionable!

- Frank Krygowski

[Jym Dyer]

> A Bike Friday is a fashion statement. As such, it really
> only impresses the coglosenti but they are VERY impressed.
> Of course you also need the spandex and the Bollé glasses.

=v= I wear neither of those things when riding my Bike Friday.
<_Jym_>

[Hank]

On Jul 23, 1:26 pm, John Kane <jrkrid...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jul 23, 10:02 am, Frank Krygowski <frkry...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Jul 22, 11:48 pm, "David L. Johnson" <david.john...@lehigh.edu>
> > wrote:
>
> > > Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > > > On Jul 22, 12:13 am, "David L. Johnson" <david.john...@lehigh.edu>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >> People who
> > > >> would not think of wearing last season's clothes ride around on bikes
> > > >> older than they are.
>
> > > > Oh, come on. My commuter is a 1972 Raleigh. I'm _much_ older than
> > > > that! ;-)
>
> > > >> Curious. Maybe this says something about the
> > > >> subset of the culture that actually rides bikes for transportation..
>
> > > > Maybe - as I sit here in clothes I bought in 2003...
>
> > > Which are much newer, and more stylish, than your bikes, right?
>
> > Hmm. Tough call!
>
> > Regarding "newness," those clothes are probably a tie with my newest
> > bike, a Bike Friday New World Tourist. Is a Friday stylish or not? I
> > can't tell.
>
> A Bike Friday is a fashion statement. As such, it really only
> impresses the coglosenti but they are VERY impressed. Of course you
> also need the spandex and the Bollé glasses.
>
> John Kane Kingson ON Canada

I've never seen a spandex & Bolle wearer on a BF. Usually rich elderly
couples in jeans and the big shades that fit over regular glasses.

[Tom Sherman]

Stephen Harding wrote:
> SMS wrote:
>> Stephen Harding wrote:
>>
>>> Tom Sherman wrote:
>>>
>>>> All the recently unemployed and the large numbers of soon to be
>>>> unemployed will not be buying new bicycles or riding them to work.
>>>
>>>
>>> Perhaps Obama will institute a government program to provide
>>> purchase assistance for people too poor or out of work to
>>> afford a bike!
>>>
>>> I have a feeling all our problems will disappear once the
>>> evil Bush (tm) leaves office and Obama and Dems take over
>>> next year, so such a program probably won't be needed.
>>
>>
>> It will take decades to recover from what the Republicans have done in
>> eight short years, so don't expect the problems to instantly disappear.
>
> Yes.
>
> We heard the same predictions about the "evil Reagan" (tm) as well.
>
None of the debt that Reagan ran up has been paid, while the interest
being paid on the debt transfers wealth from middle class wage earners
to the rich who were able to loan money to the government.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"People who had no mercy will find none." - Anon.

[SMS]

Stephen Harding wrote:

> We heard the same predictions about the "evil Reagan" (tm) as well.

The recovery period from Reagan was a lot shorter because Reagan did a
lot less damage.

Bush Sr. suffered the consequences of rather competently addressing the
problem's Reagan caused, including the S&L bailout and the huge increase
in deficits caused by tax cuts and out of control spending.

The damage W caused to the country is order of magnitudes greater than
the damage Reagan caused.

[Tom Sherman]

SMS aka Steven M. Scharf wrote:
> Stephen Harding wrote:
>
>> We heard the same predictions about the "evil Reagan" (tm) as well.
>
> The recovery period from Reagan was a lot shorter because Reagan did a
> lot less damage.
>
> Bush Sr. suffered the consequences of rather competently addressing the
> problem's Reagan caused, including the S&L bailout and the huge increase
> in deficits caused by tax cuts and out of control spending.
>
> The damage W caused to the country is order of magnitudes greater than
> the damage Reagan caused.

In this case, Scharf is correct.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"People who had no mercy will find none." - Anon.

[Tom Sherman]

SMS aka Steven M. Scharf wrote:
> Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
>
>> I agree 100%, but have yet to figure out what the solution is. My #1
>> concern is to inconvenience people as little as possible, and that
>> sign can help when we're closed or when it's standing-room-only in the
>> store and might take some time to get to people. Still, that's not
>> really the reason it's there.
>
> Copy the idea of the Homeland Security Threat Levels and make a new sign
> along these lines:
>
> Repair Shop Status
>
> Green: All Repairs Accepted, < 1 Week Turnaround....

Less than one week? Serious bicycle commuters need repairs done in less
than one day, so they are not stuck riding the bus.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"People who had no mercy will find none." - Anon.

[SMS]

Tom Sherman wrote:
> SMS aka Steven M. Scharf wrote:
>> Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
>>
>>> I agree 100%, but have yet to figure out what the solution is. My #1
>>> concern is to inconvenience people as little as possible, and that
>>> sign can help when we're closed or when it's standing-room-only in
>>> the store and might take some time to get to people. Still, that's
>>> not really the reason it's there.
>>
>> Copy the idea of the Homeland Security Threat Levels and make a new
>> sign along these lines:
>>
>> Repair Shop Status
>>
>> Green: All Repairs Accepted, < 1 Week Turnaround....
>
> Less than one week? Serious bicycle commuters need repairs done in less
> than one day, so they are not stuck riding the bus.

A serious commuter would a) be able to fix most things themselves, and
b) would likely have another bicycle to use while their commute bike is
in the shop.

[Tom Sherman]

SMS aka Steven M. Scharf wrote:
> Tom Sherman wrote:
>> SMS aka Steven M. Scharf wrote:
>>> Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
>>>
>>>> I agree 100%, but have yet to figure out what the solution is. My #1
>>>> concern is to inconvenience people as little as possible, and that
>>>> sign can help when we're closed or when it's standing-room-only in
>>>> the store and might take some time to get to people. Still, that's
>>>> not really the reason it's there.
>>>
>>> Copy the idea of the Homeland Security Threat Levels and make a new
>>> sign along these lines:
>>>
>>> Repair Shop Status
>>>
>>> Green: All Repairs Accepted, < 1 Week Turnaround....
>>
>> Less than one week? Serious bicycle commuters need repairs done in
>> less than one day, so they are not stuck riding the bus.
>
> A serious commuter would a) be able to fix most things themselves,

There are people who commute solely by bicycle, but have little
mechanical inclination.

> and
> b) would likely have another bicycle to use while their commute bike is
> in the shop.
>
Maybe in "Silicon Valley", but not here in the Upper Midwest. I know of
one shop [1] that is favored by these single bicycle commuters because
of the quick service.

[1] The proprietor is a regular on RBT.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"People who had no mercy will find none." - Anon.

[Claire Petersky]

"SMS" <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote in message
news:Ioaik.13353$LG4.2743@nlpi065.nbdc.sbc.com...

> A serious commuter would a) be able to fix most things themselves, and b)
> would likely have another bicycle to use while their commute bike is in
> the shop.

I'm a light-hearted commuter, not a serious one, so I guess that's why I
can't fix most things myself; my alternative bike is on permanent loan to my
daughter.

My shop is on the commuter route, and they are committed to having no more
than a day's delay on minor repairs, and most are done on the spot.
Commuters also get "squeezed" into the appointment book, so if you have a
major repair, you can be back on the road ASAP.

Example: I was riding home from work yesterday. Just as I was going to mount
the hill for the final push for home, the shifter cable broke. I did a U
turn and rode the few flat miles to shop. By this time it was 5:30, and the
shop guy was supposed to be finished at 5:00. Even so, he took a few minutes
to determine that the cable snapped deep inside the mechanism of the STI
shifter, and couldn't be fixed right then and there. By the next morning
(yes, after having used a malodorous steel box to get to work), it was fixed
and ready for pick-up.

Warm Regards,

Claire Petersky
http://www.bicyclemeditations.org/
See the books I've set free at: http://bookcrossing.com/referral/Cpetersky

[Mike Jacoubowsky]

| >> Less than one week? Serious bicycle commuters need repairs done in
| >> less than one day, so they are not stuck riding the bus.
| >
| > A serious commuter would a) be able to fix most things themselves,
|
| There are people who commute solely by bicycle, but have little
| mechanical inclination.
|
| > and
| > b) would likely have another bicycle to use while their commute bike is
| > in the shop.
| >
| Maybe in "Silicon Valley", but not here in the Upper Midwest. I know of
| one shop [1] that is favored by these single bicycle commuters because
| of the quick service.
|
| [1] The proprietor is a regular on RBT.

Probably the same one that's been open every single day since the first day of the Reagan administration? Andy's not exactly the norm (and the world's a better place because of it).

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com




"Tom Sherman" <sunsetss0003@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message news:g6bdl4$j88$1@registered.motzarella.org...
| SMS aka Steven M. Scharf wrote:
| > Tom Sherman wrote:
| >> SMS aka Steven M. Scharf wrote:
| >>> Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
| >>>
| >>>> I agree 100%, but have yet to figure out what the solution is. My #1
| >>>> concern is to inconvenience people as little as possible, and that
| >>>> sign can help when we're closed or when it's standing-room-only in
| >>>> the store and might take some time to get to people. Still, that's
| >>>> not really the reason it's there.
| >>>
| >>> Copy the idea of the Homeland Security Threat Levels and make a new
| >>> sign along these lines:
| >>>
| >>> Repair Shop Status
| >>>
| >>> Green: All Repairs Accepted, < 1 Week Turnaround....
| >>
| >> Less than one week? Serious bicycle commuters need repairs done in
| >> less than one day, so they are not stuck riding the bus.
| >
| > A serious commuter would a) be able to fix most things themselves,
|
| There are people who commute solely by bicycle, but have little
| mechanical inclination.
|
| > and
| > b) would likely have another bicycle to use while their commute bike is
| > in the shop.
| >
| Maybe in "Silicon Valley", but not here in the Upper Midwest. I know of
| one shop [1] that is favored by these single bicycle commuters because
| of the quick service.
|
| [1] The proprietor is a regular on RBT.
|
| --
| Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
| "People who had no mercy will find none." - Anon.

[Tom Sherman]

Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
> | >> Less than one week? Serious bicycle commuters need repairs done in
> | >> less than one day, so they are not stuck riding the bus.
> | >
> | > A serious commuter would a) be able to fix most things themselves,
> |
> | There are people who commute solely by bicycle, but have little
> | mechanical inclination.
> |
> | > and
> | > b) would likely have another bicycle to use while their commute bike is
> | > in the shop.
> | >
> | Maybe in "Silicon Valley", but not here in the Upper Midwest. I know of
> | one shop [1] that is favored by these single bicycle commuters because
> | of the quick service.
> |
> | [1] The proprietor is a regular on RBT.
>
> Probably the same one that's been open every single day since the first day
> of the Reagan administration?

I can personally verify that Andrew Muzi's shop was open well before the
start of the Reagan administration - I recall as a small child being
there [1] as the yellow Holstein-Friesian cow on wheels logo stuck in my
memory.

> Andy's not exactly the norm (and the world's a better place because
> of it).
>
This statement could be taken in either a positive or negative way. I
will assume Mike is using the positive.

Well, at least Madison is a better place for bicycle commuters since
there has been a place to get their bicycles fixed every day since April
1, 1971.

[1] Probably the University Avenue location and not the current State
Street location.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"People who had no mercy will find none." - Anon.

[SMS]

Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
> | > Only Oberstar (Chairman of the House transportation committee) has the guts
> | > to be talking about a gas tax increase to fund roads & transit projects,
> | > which is MUCH more than I can say for either of the leading candidates at
> | > the moment. At least Obama didn't fall for the McCain/Clinton idea of
> | > suspending gas taxes during the summer.
> |
> | Surprisingly the idea didn't gain any traction; in a world where voters
> | always are demanding more services and lower taxes this is a promising
> | sign. Of course it would political suicide for either candidate to be
> | honest about the need to do something about the highway trust fund deficit.
> |
> | In any case, small increases in the gasoline tax doesn't mean a penny
> | for penny increase in gasoline prices. The gasoline price is set by the
> | market. I remember the 10 cent increase in California a decade or so
> | ago. The retail gasoline price immediately went up by 10 cents, but
> | within two months the price was back to where it was before, with the
> | oil companies and refineries lowering their margins in order to reduce
> | the price and increase consumption.
>
> Exactly! The maximum amount that someone is willing to pay for gas at a given time is still determined by the user. People don't get this. Actually, the oil companies *do* get this, and to the extent that it's practical, they play with prices and allow them to rise to very high levels until they start to see demand decline, and then, somehow, regardless of what goes on at the wholesale level, the prices fall back. Funny how that is. Unfortunately, the current situation is such that the minimum base price (with no profit for the oil company) is now considerably higher than retail prices were not that long ago. But once things settle down, if there's an increase in the tax on gasoline, it may have very little effect on the retail price of that gas.
>
> Of course, if the tax is high enough that it goes beyond taking a bite from the oil companies bottom line, it will decrease demand, and if that had been done some years ago, gas prices might not be anywhere near as high as they are now. For that matter, the auto companies are probably now thinking they made a serious mistake when they lobbied to emasculate the vehicle gas standards, allowing them to continue to focus on big heavy gas-guzzling vehicles.

The oil companies are also very astute as to knowing when there may be a
call for increased gas taxes, and they quickly raise the price in order
to make such an increase unpalatable for politicians to consider. After
all, that money should be going to the oil companies, not to roads,
transit, etc.

[Mike Jacoubowsky]

> The oil companies are also very astute as to knowing when there may be a
> call for increased gas taxes, and they quickly raise the price in order to
> make such an increase unpalatable for politicians to consider. After all,
> that money should be going to the oil companies, not to roads, transit,
> etc.

Don't be too surprised if even oil companies start to look for different
energy-oriented opportunities in the future. Unless the oil company actually
owns the product in the ground (which, for the most part, they don't), they
have to consider themselves vulnerable. And who knows, it's even possible
they might being to support infrastructural improvment as a means of gaining
political credit. After all, even WalMart is beginning to understand that
being a good corporate citizen has benefits. Beginning, I say. They've got a
very long way to go. But they're not the same company they were just 5 years
ago, as they've evolved to take on their critics.

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA



"SMS" <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote in message
news:Nxjik.18511$Ri.15750@flpi146.ffdc.sbc.com...
> Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
>> | > Only Oberstar (Chairman of the House transportation committee) has
>> the guts | > to be talking about a gas tax increase to fund roads &
>> transit projects, | > which is MUCH more than I can say for either of the
>> leading candidates at | > the moment. At least Obama didn't fall for the
>> McCain/Clinton idea of | > suspending gas taxes during the summer.
>> | | Surprisingly the idea didn't gain any traction; in a world where
>> voters | always are demanding more services and lower taxes this is a
>> promising | sign. Of course it would political suicide for either
>> candidate to be | honest about the need to do something about the highway
>> trust fund deficit.
>> | | In any case, small increases in the gasoline tax doesn't mean a penny
>> | for penny increase in gasoline prices. The gasoline price is set by the
>> | market. I remember the 10 cent increase in California a decade or so |
>> ago. The retail gasoline price immediately went up by 10 cents, but |
>> within two months the price was back to where it was before, with the |
>> oil companies and refineries lowering their margins in order to reduce |
>> the price and increase consumption.
>>
>> Exactly! The maximum amount that someone is willing to pay for gas at a
>> given time is still determined by the user. People don't get this.
>> Actually, the oil companies *do* get this, and to the extent that it's
>> practical, they play with prices and allow them to rise to very high
>> levels until they start to see demand decline, and then, somehow,
>> regardless of what goes on at the wholesale level, the prices fall back.
>> Funny how that is. Unfortunately, the current situation is such that the
>> minimum base price (with no profit for the oil company) is now
>> considerably higher than retail prices were not that long ago. But once
>> things settle down, if there's an increase in the tax on gasoline, it may
>> have very little effect on the retail price of that gas.
>>
>> Of course, if the tax is high enough that it goes beyond taking a bite
>> from the oil companies bottom line, it will decrease demand, and if that
>> had been done some years ago, gas prices might not be anywhere near as
>> high as they are now. For that matter, the auto companies are probably
>> now thinking they made a serious mistake when they lobbied to emasculate
>> the vehicle gas standards, allowing them to continue to focus on big
>> heavy gas-guzzling vehicles.
>
> The oil companies are also very astute as to knowing when there may be a
> call for increased gas taxes, and they quickly raise the price in order to
> make such an increase unpalatable for politicians to consider. After all,
> that money should be going to the oil companies, not to roads, transit,
> etc.

[Tom Sherman]

Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
>> The oil companies are also very astute as to knowing when there may be a
>> call for increased gas taxes, and they quickly raise the price in order to
>> make such an increase unpalatable for politicians to consider. After all,
>> that money should be going to the oil companies, not to roads, transit,
>> etc.
>
> Don't be too surprised if even oil companies start to look for different
> energy-oriented opportunities in the future. Unless the oil company actually
> owns the product in the ground (which, for the most part, they don't), they
> have to consider themselves vulnerable. And who knows, it's even possible
> they might being to support infrastructural improvment as a means of gaining
> political credit. After all, even WalMart is beginning to understand that
> being a good corporate citizen has benefits. Beginning, I say. They've got a
> very long way to go. But they're not the same company they were just 5 years
> ago, as they've evolved to take on their critics.
>
Wal-Mart understands that cutting taxes on the rich mainly leads to a
concentration of wealth and DOES not increase the spending ability of
the working classes. However, if the minimum wage was raised
significantly, most of the additional wages would be spent, and a great
deal of that spending would take place at store such as Wal-Mart.

The reason the rich typically do not support policies that would lift
all classes is that they already have much more than they can spend, so
their primary goal becomes gaining power over others through greater
wealth on their part and greater poverty on the part of others. Power is
the ultimate goal of the very rich, not additional material wealth, and
a neo-feudal system offers them the most power.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"People who had no mercy will find none." - Anon.

[Tom Sherman]

Tom Keats wrote:
> ...
> Keeping older bikes going is a trivial matter. There still
> are many new replacement parts available, as well as salvage
> from older, discarded bikes....
>
Well, older French bicycles can be more of a problem due to item such as
bottom brackets NOT being currently used standards, so replacements are
either rare or expensive. Much better to go with older Japanese
bicycles, since the same standards are still in use on many new bicycles.

>> About half the commuting bikes in Spain that I noticed were "bike boom"
>> 10-speeds, from back when that meant a 5-speed cluster and a double.
>> The 1-speeds and 3-speeds tend to be older still.
>
Yes, but I would take an older city bike with a Sachs Torpedo hub (1
speed or 3-speed) over the other common alternatives (SA AW and Shimano
333).

> I guess bikes don't have expiration dates.
> Bicycles are pretty tough machines. They just
> refuse to crumble into a pile of powdered
> metal oxide.
>
Well the older ones do eventually crack, and corrosion is a problem for
most frames if ridden in salty conditions.

> We humans are weird:

Mr. Keats gets the award for RBM Understatement of the Month.

> we're perfectly willing to forsake
> some things to get the newer, better, more-featured version
> (like cell phones,) and yet to other things we remain
> adamantly attached. Especially if they're things that
> provide comfort, like a well broken-in pair of shoes.
> I think we as a culture go through microwave ovens
> way too much....
>
Hey, I am still using the same mobile phone I got in 2001.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"People who had no mercy will find none." - Anon.

[David L. Johnson]

Tom Keats wrote:
>> It amazes me that in a culture, either in the US or Europe, that
>> stresses having new everything every few years, the bikes that you see
>> being ridden for commuting purposes average 25+ years old. People who
>> would not think of wearing last season's clothes ride around on bikes
>> older than they are. Curious. Maybe this says something about the
>> subset of the culture that actually rides bikes for transportation.
>
> Maybe just some parts (frames) of those bikes are so old.

Mostly, no, the bikes tend to be in nearly-stock condition as a rule.
Mine is about half original parts, and half of newer vintage.

> Keeping older bikes going is a trivial matter. There still
> are many new replacement parts available, as well as salvage
> from older, discarded bikes.

True.

--

David L. Johnson

And what if you track down these men and kill them, what if you killed
all of us? From every corner of Europe, hundreds, thousands would
rise up to take our places. Even Nazis can't kill that fast.
-- Paul Henreid (Casablanca).

[Peter Cole]

Tom Sherman wrote:
> Tom Keats wrote:

>> I guess bikes don't have expiration dates.
>> Bicycles are pretty tough machines. They just
>> refuse to crumble into a pile of powdered
>> metal oxide.
>>
> Well the older ones do eventually crack, and corrosion is a problem for
> most frames if ridden in salty conditions.

I have observed both things here in Boston. I just keep a few spare
frames in mothballs for replacements. I currently have 3, they don't
take up much space, and at my age might represent a lifetime supply.

The oldest frame that gets ridden regularly is circa 1971, the newest
2004, there's hardly any difference.

[Dane Buson]

Claire Petersky <cpetersky@mouse-potato.com> wrote:

> Even so, he took a few minutes to determine that the cable snapped deep
> inside the mechanism of the STI shifter, and couldn't be fixed right then and
> there. By the next morning (yes, after having used a malodorous steel box to
> get to work), it was fixed and ready for pick-up.

That is one nice thing about the barcon shifters. There is no hiding
places for the cable when it breaks. I've broken a cable a couple times
now on the way to work. Thankfully, I keep spares in one of my drawers,
so I can just replace them and then snip the excess when I get home.

--
Dane Buson - nn07tp08@unixbigots.org
"The gene pool could use a little chlorine."

[Peter Cole]

Dane Buson wrote:
> Claire Petersky <cpetersky@mouse-potato.com> wrote:
>
>> Even so, he took a few minutes to determine that the cable snapped deep
>> inside the mechanism of the STI shifter, and couldn't be fixed right then and
>> there. By the next morning (yes, after having used a malodorous steel box to
>> get to work), it was fixed and ready for pick-up.
>
> That is one nice thing about the barcon shifters. There is no hiding
> places for the cable when it breaks. I've broken a cable a couple times
> now on the way to work. Thankfully, I keep spares in one of my drawers,
> so I can just replace them and then snip the excess when I get home.
>

Better than that, I've always felt the broken strands poke my fingers
before the cable actually let go.

One of the things I like about triples -- if the right cable is about to
go, you just ride a 3-speed home. Even if it does break, you can tie it
off in a middle gear.

[Dane Buson]

Peter Cole <peter_cole@verizon.net> wrote:
> Dane Buson wrote:
>>
>> That is one nice thing about the barcon shifters. There is no hiding
>> places for the cable when it breaks. I've broken a cable a couple times
>> now on the way to work. Thankfully, I keep spares in one of my drawers,
>> so I can just replace them and then snip the excess when I get home.
>
> Better than that, I've always felt the broken strands poke my fingers
> before the cable actually let go.

I've never been that lucky or observant unfortunately.

> One of the things I like about triples -- if the right cable is about to
> go, you just ride a 3-speed home. Even if it does break, you can tie it
> off in a middle gear.

Well, when the rear cable broke last, I was stuck with my choice of
36/11 or 48/11. Which was okay since I was only 2 miles from work
(where I did have a spare cable). The front breaking was much better
since 36/11-28 is pretty manageable if you can tolerate all the scraping
on the front derailleur in the bigger gears.

--
Dane Buson - nn07tp08@unixbigots.org
"These are DARK TIMES for all mankind's HIGHEST VALUES!"
"These are DARK TIMES for FREEDOM and PROSPERITY!"
"These are GREAT TIMES to put your money on BAD GUY to kick the CRAP
out of MEGATON MAN!"

[Claire Petersky]

"Peter Cole" <peter_cole@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:45kkk.503$wS4.79@trnddc03...

> One of the things I like about triples -- if the right cable is about to
> go, you just ride a 3-speed home. Even if it does break, you can tie it
> off in a middle gear.

Alas, where the cable broke when I was riding home was just before the big
hill. It tops out at a 19% grade. Even with 30 gears at my disposal last
night, since it was raining and the pavement mossy, I opted to walk it
through the steepest part.

--
Warm Regards,

Claire Petersky
http://www.bicyclemeditations.org/
See the books I've set free at: http://bookcrossing.com/referral/Cpetersky

[Pat]

>> A Bike Friday is a fashion statement. As such, it really
>> only impresses the coglosenti but they are VERY impressed.
>> Of course you also need the spandex and the Bollé glasses.
>
> =v= I wear neither of those things when riding my Bike Friday.
> <_Jym_>

At first, I was astonished that he would think I (or anyone else) would
spend as much as a Bike Friday costs without have a utilitarian use for
it---and then I noticed he can't even spell. Sounds like pure envy, to me.

Pat in TX
>

[Tom Keats]

In article <Jdkkk.504$wS4.211@trnddc03>,
Peter Cole <peter_cole@verizon.net> writes:
> Tom Sherman wrote:
>> Tom Keats wrote:
>
>>> I guess bikes don't have expiration dates.
>>> Bicycles are pretty tough machines. They just
>>> refuse to crumble into a pile of powdered
>>> metal oxide.
>>>
>> Well the older ones do eventually crack, and corrosion is a problem for
>> most frames if ridden in salty conditions.
>
> I have observed both things here in Boston. I just keep a few spare
> frames in mothballs for replacements. I currently have 3, they don't
> take up much space, and at my age might represent a lifetime supply.
>
> The oldest frame that gets ridden regularly is circa 1971, the newest
> 2004, there's hardly any difference.

We don't get much snow in Vancouver, so bikes here aren't
so much exposed to salt, despite our maritime geographical
situation. There are plenty of '50s and '60s frames here,
still seeing active service.

Even a lot of vintage paint is still good. But Canadian
bikes of yore differ from their American cousins.
In fact, we Canadians have, until the Free Trade Agreement,
experienced exposure to much different bikes than USA'ans.
A '50s or '60s CCM is nothing like any contemporaneous
Schwinn counterpart. And then there are our Canada-built
Raleighs.

All we get here is rain, and rain is fairly gentle.
It seems you east-coasters get the severe weather and
associated conditions (e.g: salted snowy streets)
that are so hard on bikes.

Canada-built Ford/GM/Chrysler automobiles are supposed
to be hardier than their USA'an counterparts, too. Heh.

Bikes last pretty good on the West Coast of North America.
Even when snuggled right up against the salty Pacific Ocean.

If anything is killing your East Coast bikes, I wouldn't
be surprised if it was road salt. And /lots/ of it.


cheers,
Tom

--
Nothing is safe from me.
I'm really at:
tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

[Peter Cole]

Claire Petersky wrote:
> "Peter Cole" <peter_cole@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:45kkk.503$wS4.79@trnddc03...
>
>> One of the things I like about triples -- if the right cable is about to
>> go, you just ride a 3-speed home. Even if it does break, you can tie it
>> off in a middle gear.
>
> Alas, where the cable broke when I was riding home was just before the big
> hill. It tops out at a 19% grade. Even with 30 gears at my disposal last
> night, since it was raining and the pavement mossy, I opted to walk it
> through the steepest part.
>

No shame in that. I'm pretty sure I can't ride 19% at much more than
walking speed, anyway.

[Dane Buson]

Claire Petersky <cpetersky@mouse-potato.com> wrote:
>
> "Peter Cole" <peter_cole@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:45kkk.503$wS4.79@trnddc03...
>
>> One of the things I like about triples -- if the right cable is about to
>> go, you just ride a 3-speed home. Even if it does break, you can tie it
>> off in a middle gear.
>
> Alas, where the cable broke when I was riding home was just before the big
> hill. It tops out at a 19% grade. Even with 30 gears at my disposal last
> night, since it was raining and the pavement mossy, I opted to walk it
> through the steepest part.

19%? Ugh, which hill is this?

--
Dane Buson - nn07tp08@unixbigots.org
Every word is like an unnecessary stain on silence and nothingness.
-- Beckett

[Tom Sherman]

Tom Keats wrote:
> In article <Jdkkk.504$wS4.211@trnddc03>,
> Peter Cole <peter_cole@verizon.net> writes:
>> Tom Sherman wrote:
>>> Tom Keats wrote:
>>>> I guess bikes don't have expiration dates.
>>>> Bicycles are pretty tough machines. They just
>>>> refuse to crumble into a pile of powdered
>>>> metal oxide.
>>>>
>>> Well the older ones do eventually crack, and corrosion is a problem for
>>> most frames if ridden in salty conditions.
>> I have observed both things here in Boston. I just keep a few spare
>> frames in mothballs for replacements. I currently have 3, they don't
>> take up much space, and at my age might represent a lifetime supply.
>>
>> The oldest frame that gets ridden regularly is circa 1971, the newest
>> 2004, there's hardly any difference.
>
> We don't get much snow in Vancouver, so bikes here aren't
> so much exposed to salt, despite our maritime geographical
> situation. There are plenty of '50s and '60s frames here,
> still seeing active service.
>
We had about 3 meters of snowfall last year.

> Even a lot of vintage paint is still good. But Canadian
> bikes of yore differ from their American cousins.
> In fact, we Canadians have, until the Free Trade Agreement,
> experienced exposure to much different bikes than USA'ans.
> A '50s or '60s CCM is nothing like any contemporaneous
> Schwinn counterpart. And then there are our Canada-built
> Raleighs.
>
> All we get here is rain, and rain is fairly gentle.
> It seems you east-coasters get the severe weather and
> associated conditions (e.g: salted snowy streets)
> that are so hard on bikes.
>
> Canada-built Ford/GM/Chrysler automobiles are supposed
> to be hardier than their USA'an counterparts, too. Heh.
>
They all rust badly around here.

> Bikes last pretty good on the West Coast of North America.
> Even when snuggled right up against the salty Pacific Ocean.
>
> If anything is killing your East Coast bikes, I wouldn't
> be surprised if it was road salt. And /lots/ of it.
>
We go from new white snow, to nasty gray salt slush, to dry roads
covered with a salt (calcium chloride and sodium chloride mixture).
Repeat 15 or 20 times each winter.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
“Mary had a little lamb / And when she saw it sicken /
She shipped it off to Packingtown / And now it’s labeled chicken.”

[Tom Sherman]

Tom Sherman wrote:
> Tom Keats wrote:
>> In article <Jdkkk.504$wS4.211@trnddc03>,
>> Peter Cole <peter_cole@verizon.net> writes:
>>> Tom Sherman wrote:
>>>> Tom Keats wrote:
>>>>> I guess bikes don't have expiration dates.
>>>>> Bicycles are pretty tough machines. They just
>>>>> refuse to crumble into a pile of powdered
>>>>> metal oxide.
>>>>>
>>>> Well the older ones do eventually crack, and corrosion is a problem
>>>> for most frames if ridden in salty conditions.
>>> I have observed both things here in Boston. I just keep a few spare
>>> frames in mothballs for replacements. I currently have 3, they don't
>>> take up much space, and at my age might represent a lifetime supply.
>>>
>>> The oldest frame that gets ridden regularly is circa 1971, the newest
>>> 2004, there's hardly any difference.
>>
>> We don't get much snow in Vancouver, so bikes here aren't
>> so much exposed to salt, despite our maritime geographical
>> situation. There are plenty of '50s and '60s frames here,
>> still seeing active service.
>>
> We had about 3 meters of snowfall last year.
>
>> Even a lot of vintage paint is still good. But Canadian
>> bikes of yore differ from their American cousins.
>> In fact, we Canadians have, until the Free Trade Agreement,
>> experienced exposure to much different bikes than USA'ans.
>> A '50s or '60s CCM is nothing like any contemporaneous
>> Schwinn counterpart. And then there are our Canada-built
>> Raleighs.
>>
>> All we get here is rain, and rain is fairly gentle.
>> It seems you east-coasters get the severe weather and
>> associated conditions (e.g: salted snowy streets)
>> that are so hard on bikes.
>>
>> Canada-built Ford/GM/Chrysler automobiles are supposed
>> to be hardier than their USA'an counterparts, too. Heh.
>>
> They all rust badly around here.
>
>> Bikes last pretty good on the West Coast of North America.
>> Even when snuggled right up against the salty Pacific Ocean.
>>
>> If anything is killing your East Coast bikes, I wouldn't
>> be surprised if it was road salt. And /lots/ of it.
>>
> We go from new white snow, to nasty gray salt slush, to dry roads
> covered with a salt (calcium chloride and sodium chloride mixture).
> Repeat 15 or 20 times each winter.
>
The above should read:
We go from new white snow, to nasty gray salt slush, to dry roads
covered with a salt (calcium chloride and sodium chloride mixture)
dusting. Repeat 15 or 20 times each winter.

I have found it is possible to prematurely send a message by dropping
the mouse.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
“Mary had a little lamb / And when she saw it sicken /
She shipped it off to Packingtown / And now it’s labeled chicken.”

[Tom Keats]

In article <g85up3$ce6$1@registered.motzarella.org>,
Tom Sherman <sunsetss0003@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> writes:
> Tom Keats wrote:
>> In article <Jdkkk.504$wS4.211@trnddc03>,
>> Peter Cole <peter_cole@verizon.net> writes:
>>> Tom Sherman wrote:
>>>> Tom Keats wrote:
>>>>> I guess bikes don't have expiration dates.
>>>>> Bicycles are pretty tough machines. They just
>>>>> refuse to crumble into a pile of powdered
>>>>> metal oxide.
>>>>>
>>>> Well the older ones do eventually crack, and corrosion is a problem for
>>>> most frames if ridden in salty conditions.
>>> I have observed both things here in Boston. I just keep a few spare
>>> frames in mothballs for replacements. I currently have 3, they don't
>>> take up much space, and at my age might represent a lifetime supply.
>>>
>>> The oldest frame that gets ridden regularly is circa 1971, the newest
>>> 2004, there's hardly any difference.
>>
>> We don't get much snow in Vancouver, so bikes here aren't
>> so much exposed to salt, despite our maritime geographical
>> situation. There are plenty of '50s and '60s frames here,
>> still seeing active service.
>>
> We had about 3 meters of snowfall last year.

I comiserate.

>> Even a lot of vintage paint is still good. But Canadian
>> bikes of yore differ from their American cousins.
>> In fact, we Canadians have, until the Free Trade Agreement,
>> experienced exposure to much different bikes than USA'ans.
>> A '50s or '60s CCM is nothing like any contemporaneous
>> Schwinn counterpart. And then there are our Canada-built
>> Raleighs.
>>
>> All we get here is rain, and rain is fairly gentle.
>> It seems you east-coasters get the severe weather and
>> associated conditions (e.g: salted snowy streets)
>> that are so hard on bikes.
>>
>> Canada-built Ford/GM/Chrysler automobiles are supposed
>> to be hardier th