Cime de la Bonnette-Restefond - a monster

[SLAVE of THE STATE]

That was an incredible mountain; it created gaps on both sides, which
I suppose is the test for a good route. It had a grueling near-
endless climb and turn-after-turn on the descent all the way to the
finish.

Cool stage.

I didn't catch the post show and didn't see it on the video, so the
first I knew of this was on CN:

"Garmin-Chipotle's leader Christian Vande Velde also crashed during
the stage,..."
http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2008//tour08/?id=results/tour0816

[Mike Iglesias]

In article <f6b6c7e3-a70a-4bf6-bb8e-61d1828943a6@c58g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>,
SLAVE of THE STATE <gwhite@ti.com> wrote:
>I didn't catch the post show and didn't see it on the video, so the
>first I knew of this was on CN:
>
>"Garmin-Chipotle's leader Christian Vande Velde also crashed during
>the stage,..."
>http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2008//tour08/?id=results/tour0816

They interviewed him after the stage and he mentioned it, but gave no details
other than a Cofidis rider went down too.


--
Mike Iglesias Email: iglesias@uci.edu
University of California, Irvine phone: 949-824-6926
Network & Academic Computing Services FAX: 949-824-2069

[ilanpsi@gmail.com]

On Jul 22, 6:47 pm, SLAVE of THE STATE <gwh...@ti.com> wrote:
> That was an incredible mountain; it created gaps on both sides, which
> I suppose is the test for a good route. It had a grueling near-
> endless climb and turn-after-turn on the descent all the way to the
> finish.
>
> Cool stage.
>
> I didn't catch the post show and didn't see it on the video, so the
> first I knew of this was on CN:
>
> "Garmin-Chipotle's leader Christian Vande Velde also crashed during
> the stage,..."http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2008//tour08/?id=results/tour0816

I found it truly surprising that Arvesen pulled for miles in a left
side wind and he rode way over to the left, allowing the whole group
to form an echelon. He should have ridden just to the left so that his
CSC riders could overlap and leave everyone else with nowhere to hide.
Even later on, Evans was overlapping Frank Schleck's wheel on the
right, i.e., Schleck left him room.

-ilan

[Ted van de Weteringe]

ilanpsi@gmail.com schreef:
> I found it truly surprising that Arvesen pulled for miles in a left
> side wind and he rode way over to the left, allowing the whole group
> to form an echelon. He should have ridden just to the left so that his
> CSC riders could overlap and leave everyone else with nowhere to hide.
> Even later on, Evans was overlapping Frank Schleck's wheel on the
> right, i.e., Schleck left him room.

It looked to me like Frank had a (relatively) bad day; if that is true
then that was probably also the reason they didn't blow up the race with
all those guns present in, and passing by, the lead group. Maybe they
were trying put the others to sleep by inviting them in the echelon.
Riding it on the side could have invited attacks.

[ilanpsi@gmail.com]

On Jul 22, 11:58 pm, Ted van de Weteringe
<myfulln...@xs4all.nl.invalid> wrote:
> ilan...@gmail.com schreef:
>
> > I found it truly surprising that Arvesen pulled for miles in a left
> > side wind and he rode way over to the left, allowing the whole group
> > to form an echelon. He should have ridden just to the left so that his
> > CSC riders could overlap and leave everyone else with nowhere to hide.
> > Even later on, Evans was overlapping Frank Schleck's wheel on the
> > right, i.e., Schleck left him room.
>
> It looked to me like Frank had a (relatively) bad day; if that is true
> then that was probably also the reason they didn't blow up the race with
> all those guns present in, and passing by, the lead group. Maybe they
> were trying put the others to sleep by inviting them in the echelon.
> Riding it on the side could have invited attacks.

Unfortunately, you're probably right. In a brief moment of lucidity
during that climb, Fignon said that this year was just a "transition
Tour" and that any of the top riders were second category riders
compared to Armstrong (or any of the former greats I assume).

-ilan

[SLAVE of THE STATE]

On Jul 22, 2:58*pm, Ted van de Weteringe
<myfulln...@xs4all.nl.invalid> wrote:
> ilan...@gmail.com schreef:
>
> > I found it truly surprising that Arvesen pulled for miles in a left
> > side wind and he rode way over to the left, allowing the whole group
> > to form an echelon. He should have ridden just to the left so that his
> > CSC riders could overlap and leave everyone else with nowhere to hide.
> > Even later on, Evans was overlapping Frank Schleck's wheel on the
> > right, i.e., Schleck left him room.
>
> It looked to me like Frank had a (relatively) bad day; if that is true
> then that was probably also the reason they didn't blow up the race with
> all those guns present in, and passing by, the lead group. Maybe they
> were trying put the others to sleep by inviting them in the echelon.
> Riding it on the side could have invited attacks.

Kohl maybe. Evans? No way. He seems to want to hang and put his
eggs in the TT basket. Or he just can't attack cuz he's always at/
near his limit.

[Bob Schwartz]

ilanpsi@gmail.com wrote:
> In a brief moment of lucidity
> during that climb, Fignon said that this year was just a "transition
> Tour" and that any of the top riders were second category riders
> compared to Armstrong (or any of the former greats I assume).

Well, now we know who is posting as Magilla.

Bob Schwartz

[Keith]

>> It looked to me like Frank had a (relatively) bad day; if that is true
>> then that was probably also the reason they didn't blow up the race with
>> all those guns present in, and passing by, the lead group. Maybe they
>> were trying put the others to sleep by inviting them in the echelon.
>> Riding it on the side could have invited attacks.
>
>Unfortunately, you're probably right. In a brief moment of lucidity
>during that climb, Fignon said that this year was just a "transition
>Tour" and that any of the top riders were second category riders
>compared to Armstrong (or any of the former greats I assume).

Not quite, Adam recalled how Fignon had said that a few days ago.

Not sure about "second rate" riders, that was a hell of a climb and
the dope use of yesteryear may not be gone for good, but it has
certainly been curbed. It's refreshing not to see some doped up dude
trounce the competition like Armstrong did for 7 years in a row, or
Landis in Morzine, Rasmussen last year or Ricco before he was caught.

[Tom Kunich]

<ilanpsi@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:f04c4fee-78d6-4863-9d2e-fb7ca20fa556@d77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
>
> Unfortunately, you're probably right. In a brief moment of lucidity
> during that climb, Fignon said that this year was just a "transition
> Tour" and that any of the top riders were second category riders
> compared to Armstrong (or any of the former greats I assume).

One thing is for certain - they are all not in the same category with
Contador and maybe even Levi.

[SLAVE of THE STATE]

On Jul 22, 3:14*pm, ilan...@gmail.com wrote:

> In a brief moment of lucidity
> during that climb, Fignon said that this year was just a "transition
> Tour" and that any of the top riders were second category riders
> compared to Armstrong (or any of the former greats I assume).


In one of my brief moments of lucidity, I said pretty much the same
thing.

However, Mr. Schwartz still has a point: I am enjoying it anyway.

[ilanpsi@gmail.com]

On Jul 23, 1:24 am, Keith <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
> >> It looked to me like Frank had a (relatively) bad day; if that is true
> >> then that was probably also the reason they didn't blow up the race with
> >> all those guns present in, and passing by, the lead group. Maybe they
> >> were trying put the others to sleep by inviting them in the echelon.
> >> Riding it on the side could have invited attacks.
>
> >Unfortunately, you're probably right. In a brief moment of lucidity
> >during that climb, Fignon said that this year was just a "transition
> >Tour" and that any of the top riders were second category riders
> >compared to Armstrong (or any of the former greats I assume).
>
> Not quite, Adam recalled how Fignon had said that a few days ago.
>
> Not sure about "second rate" riders, that was a hell of a climb and
> the dope use of yesteryear may not be gone for good, but it has
> certainly been curbed. It's refreshing not to see some doped up dude
> trounce the competition like Armstrong did for 7 years in a row, or
> Landis in Morzine, Rasmussen last year or Ricco before he was caught.

So according to you this is the 4th "Tour du renouveau" in a row after
2006, 2007, 2008 pre-Ricco.

-ilan

[zzfranklin@mac.com]

On Jul 22, 4:24 pm, Keith <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:

> Not sure about "second rate" riders, that was a hell of a climb and
> the dope use of yesteryear may not be gone for good, but it has
> certainly been curbed. It's refreshing not to see some doped up dude
> trounce the competition like Armstrong did for 7 years in a row, or
> Landis in Morzine, Rasmussen last year or Ricco before he was caught.

If by refreshing you mean boring I completely agree.

[Keith]

On Tue, 22 Jul 2008 17:15:53 -0700 (PDT), ilanpsi@gmail.com wrote:

>On Jul 23, 1:24 am, Keith <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
>> >> It looked to me like Frank had a (relatively) bad day; if that is true
>> >> then that was probably also the reason they didn't blow up the race with
>> >> all those guns present in, and passing by, the lead group. Maybe they
>> >> were trying put the others to sleep by inviting them in the echelon.
>> >> Riding it on the side could have invited attacks.
>>
>> >Unfortunately, you're probably right. In a brief moment of lucidity
>> >during that climb, Fignon said that this year was just a "transition
>> >Tour" and that any of the top riders were second category riders
>> >compared to Armstrong (or any of the former greats I assume).
>>
>> Not quite, Adam recalled how Fignon had said that a few days ago.
>>
>> Not sure about "second rate" riders, that was a hell of a climb and
>> the dope use of yesteryear may not be gone for good, but it has
>> certainly been curbed. It's refreshing not to see some doped up dude
>> trounce the competition like Armstrong did for 7 years in a row, or
>> Landis in Morzine, Rasmussen last year or Ricco before he was caught.
>
>So according to you this is the 4th "Tour du renouveau" in a row after
>2006, 2007, 2008 pre-Ricco.

It seems you are in "dumbfounded by Heulot" mode again, I'll let you
think it over.

[Keith]

On Tue, 22 Jul 2008 17:20:08 -0700, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo.
com> wrote:

><ilanpsi@gmail.com> wrote in message
>news:f04c4fee-78d6-4863-9d2e-fb7ca20fa556@d77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> Unfortunately, you're probably right. In a brief moment of lucidity
>> during that climb, Fignon said that this year was just a "transition
>> Tour" and that any of the top riders were second category riders
>> compared to Armstrong (or any of the former greats I assume).
>
>One thing is for certain - they are all not in the same category with
>Contador and maybe even Levi.

If you think 23" at the end of the tour represents a category, then
yes, I don't.

[Kurgan Gringioni]

On Jul 22, 5:20*pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
> <ilan...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:f04c4fee-78d6-4863-9d2e-fb7ca20fa556@d77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > Unfortunately, you're probably right. In a brief moment of lucidity
> > during that climb, Fignon said that this year was just a "transition
> > Tour" and that any of the top riders were second category riders
> > compared to Armstrong (or any of the former greats I assume).
>
> One thing is for certain - they are all not in the same category with
> Contador and maybe even Levi.




Dumbass -


They're not in the same league as Contador.

They compare with Leipheimer though. You wouldn't think he was that
great if he wasn't American. 34 years old, hasn't won a Grand Tour,
sucks wheel like Cadel Evans (well, maybe not quite *that* much).
Leipheimer is good, but he isn't one of those guys destined for
greatness. He's one of the second tier dudes who might be able to win
if they get really lucky.


thanks,

K. Gringioni.

[ilanpsi@gmail.com]

On Jul 23, 2:44 am, Keith <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 22 Jul 2008 17:15:53 -0700 (PDT), ilan...@gmail.com wrote:
> >On Jul 23, 1:24 am, Keith <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
> >> >> It looked to me like Frank had a (relatively) bad day; if that is true
> >> >> then that was probably also the reason they didn't blow up the race with
> >> >> all those guns present in, and passing by, the lead group. Maybe they
> >> >> were trying put the others to sleep by inviting them in the echelon.
> >> >> Riding it on the side could have invited attacks.
>
> >> >Unfortunately, you're probably right. In a brief moment of lucidity
> >> >during that climb, Fignon said that this year was just a "transition
> >> >Tour" and that any of the top riders were second category riders
> >> >compared to Armstrong (or any of the former greats I assume).
>
> >> Not quite, Adam recalled how Fignon had said that a few days ago.
>
> >> Not sure about "second rate" riders, that was a hell of a climb and
> >> the dope use of yesteryear may not be gone for good, but it has
> >> certainly been curbed. It's refreshing not to see some doped up dude
> >> trounce the competition like Armstrong did for 7 years in a row, or
> >> Landis in Morzine, Rasmussen last year or Ricco before he was caught.
>
> >So according to you this is the 4th "Tour du renouveau" in a row after
> >2006, 2007, 2008 pre-Ricco.
>
> It seems you are in "dumbfounded by Heulot" mode again, I'll let you
> think it over.

As you say it takes me a while to parse comments by idiots like
Heulot.

-ilan

[Keith]

>> >> >Unfortunately, you're probably right. In a brief moment of lucidity
>> >> >during that climb, Fignon said that this year was just a "transition
>> >> >Tour" and that any of the top riders were second category riders
>> >> >compared to Armstrong (or any of the former greats I assume).
>>
>> >> Not quite, Adam recalled how Fignon had said that a few days ago.
>>
>> >> Not sure about "second rate" riders, that was a hell of a climb and
>> >> the dope use of yesteryear may not be gone for good, but it has
>> >> certainly been curbed. It's refreshing not to see some doped up dude
>> >> trounce the competition like Armstrong did for 7 years in a row, or
>> >> Landis in Morzine, Rasmussen last year or Ricco before he was caught.
>>
>> >So according to you this is the 4th "Tour du renouveau" in a row after
>> >2006, 2007, 2008 pre-Ricco.
>>
>> It seems you are in "dumbfounded by Heulot" mode again, I'll let you
>> think it over.
>
>As you say it takes me a while to parse comments by idiots like
>Heulot.

Maybe you ask Ricco for the secret recipe then.

[Keith]

>> Not sure about "second rate" riders, that was a hell of a climb and
>> the dope use of yesteryear may not be gone for good, but it has
>> certainly been curbed. It's refreshing not to see some doped up dude
>> trounce the competition like Armstrong did for 7 years in a row, or
>> Landis in Morzine, Rasmussen last year or Ricco before he was caught.
>
>If by refreshing you mean boring I completely agree.

Well wasn't everyone saying that doping didn't make a difference, that
there would always be better riders? Up to a point it seems, when it's
too tough differences get flatttened out.

We'll see what happens today in the Alpe.

[Keith]

On Tue, 22 Jul 2008 20:07:30 -0700 (PDT), Kurgan Gringioni
<kgringioni@hotmail.com> wrote:

>On Jul 22, 5:20Â*pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
>> <ilan...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:f04c4fee-78d6-4863-9d2e-fb7ca20fa556@d77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>
>>
>> > Unfortunately, you're probably right. In a brief moment of lucidity
>> > during that climb, Fignon said that this year was just a "transition
>> > Tour" and that any of the top riders were second category riders
>> > compared to Armstrong (or any of the former greats I assume).
>>
>> One thing is for certain - they are all not in the same category with
>> Contador and maybe even Levi.
>
>
>
>
>Dumbass -
>
>
>They're not in the same league as Contador.

So you also think a 23 second gap after a three week race puts him in
a different league ? If it hadn't been for Rasmussen attacking before
he got kicked out, he likely wouldn't have won.

[Kurgan Gringioni]

On Jul 23, 12:07*am, Keith <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 22 Jul 2008 20:07:30 -0700 (PDT), Kurgan Gringioni
>
>
>
>
>
> <kgringi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >On Jul 22, 5:20*pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
> >> <ilan...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> >>news:f04c4fee-78d6-4863-9d2e-fb7ca20fa556@d77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com....
>
> >> > Unfortunately, you're probably right. In a brief moment of lucidity
> >> > during that climb, Fignon said that this year was just a "transition
> >> > Tour" and that any of the top riders were second category riders
> >> > compared to Armstrong (or any of the former greats I assume).
>
> >> One thing is for certain - they are all not in the same category with
> >> Contador and maybe even Levi.
>
> >Dumbass -
>
> >They're not in the same league as Contador.
>
> So you also think a 23 second gap after a three week race puts him in
> a different league ? If it hadn't been for Rasmussen attacking before
> he got kicked out, he likely wouldn't have won.



Dumbass -


You've got ur head where it's not shining. Contador is relatively
young. When he won the TdF last year he was 24. This year Mr. Gunn is
34.

Contador might be one of those guys who wins 5. Look at what he did
this year at the Giro, a week after getting off the beach.


thanks,

K. Gringioni.