Alpe decided at 12.6k to go

[Mike Jacoubowsky]

Run your TIvo/DVR back to 12.6k to go on the Alpe d'Huez climb, and you'll see the moment that Sastre may have won the 'TdF. Mario Aerts wasn't up to the task at hand, and when he pulls over, everyone else starts moving all over the road, nobody wanting to take the lead. Kohl was the big surprise to me; he had an opportunity there and passed it up. Shortly thereafter he's looking pretty tired, and the Schleck brothers? Quick little jumps then pull over.

Andy would come up from behind, look like he was going to take off, but instead pull into position behind Kohl, directly in front of Cadel.

Then focus on Satre's breathing. The guy is totally under control. Everything smooth, while the guys behind him are all over the road, with Phil noting a "huge attack from Schleck" which went nowhere, but seemed to set up some sort of agreement between Frank & Valverde that amounted to... nothing.

So I'm torn between the idea that all of these guys were just totally spent and the thought of dragging anyone up the hill behind them seemed too great a price to pay to win the 'Tour, or was it actually the Schleck brothers deliberately messing up the chase group so Sastre could win the 'tour?

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

[Nobody]

On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 10:17:56 -0700, "Mike Jacoubowsky"

(I'm going to top post here, b/c of Mike's newsreader wordwrap)

I'm torn also, b/c they burnt the Schleck brother's matches to give
Sastre the stage and yellow jersey, but that isn't the way to manage
the team member who is in yellow at the time, is it?

They may have ended up merely giving Sastre the stage, and the Yellow,
but burning the Schlecks, and the team, may end up losing the tour.

We'll see. Good post, Mike.





<mikej1@ix.netcom.com> wrote:

>Run your TIvo/DVR back to 12.6k to go on the Alpe d'Huez climb, and you'll see the moment that Sastre may have won the 'TdF. Mario Aerts wasn't up to the task at hand, and when he pulls over, everyone else starts moving all over the road, nobody wanting to take the lead. Kohl was the big surprise to me; he had an opportunity there and passed it up. Shortly thereafter he's looking pretty tired, and the Schleck brothers? Quick little jumps then pull over.
>
>Andy would come up from behind, look like he was going to take off, but instead pull into position behind Kohl, directly in front of Cadel.
>
>Then focus on Satre's breathing. The guy is totally under control. Everything smooth, while the guys behind him are all over the road, with Phil noting a "huge attack from Schleck" which went nowhere, but seemed to set up some sort of agreement between Frank & Valverde that amounted to... nothing.
>
>So I'm torn between the idea that all of these guys were just totally spent and the thought of dragging anyone up the hill behind them seemed too great a price to pay to win the 'Tour, or was it actually the Schleck brothers deliberately messing up the chase group so Sastre could win the 'tour?
>
>--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
>www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
>

[Larry Dickman]

In article <zHJhk.6496$cn7.5464@flpi145.ffdc.sbc.com>,
"Mike Jacoubowsky" <mikej1@ix.netcom.com> wrote:

> Run your TIvo/DVR back to 12.6k to go on the Alpe d'Huez climb, and you'll
> see the moment that Sastre may have won the 'TdF.

Dumbass

I doubt it. Evans will make up the current 1:34 time deficit and more in
the final time trial. In Stage 4, Evans finished 1:16 ahead of Sastre in
a 29.5km time trial. The Stage 20 time trial is 53km (almost twice as
long). See
http://tour-de-france.velonews.com/article/80660/who-won-sastre-or-evans

[Michael Press]

In article <zHJhk.6496$cn7.5464@flpi145.ffdc.sbc.com>,
"Mike Jacoubowsky" <mikej1@ix.netcom.com> wrote:

> Run your TIvo/DVR back to

All I remember is the picture of those two drunken louts
brawling on the side of the road as Sastre rode past them.
Right hand side, one lout wearing red shorts and tee-shirt.

--
Michael Press

[Bret Wade]

Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
> Run your TIvo/DVR back to 12.6k to go on the Alpe d'Huez climb, and you'll see the moment that Sastre may have won the 'TdF. Mario Aerts wasn't up to the task at hand, and when he pulls over, everyone else starts moving all over the road, nobody wanting to take the lead. Kohl was the big surprise to me; he had an opportunity there and passed it up. Shortly thereafter he's looking pretty tired, and the Schleck brothers? Quick little jumps then pull over.
>
> Andy would come up from behind, look like he was going to take off, but instead pull into position behind Kohl, directly in front of Cadel.
>
> Then focus on Satre's breathing. The guy is totally under control. Everything smooth, while the guys behind him are all over the road, with Phil noting a "huge attack from Schleck" which went nowhere, but seemed to set up some sort of agreement between Frank & Valverde that amounted to... nothing.
>
> So I'm torn between the idea that all of these guys were just totally spent and the thought of dragging anyone up the hill behind them seemed too great a price to pay to win the 'Tour, or was it actually the Schleck brothers deliberately messing up the chase group so Sastre could win the 'tour?
>
> --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
> www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
>
>

For me, the turning point was when Sastre took the seven pound weight
off his top tube.

Bret

[r15757@aol.com]

On Jul 23, 11:17 am, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <mik...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> Run your TIvo/DVR back to 12.6k to go on the Alpe d'Huez climb, and you'll see the moment that Sastre may have won the 'TdF. Mario Aerts wasn't up to the task at hand, and when he pulls over, everyone else starts moving all over the road, nobody wanting to take the lead. Kohl was the big surprise to me; he had an opportunity there and passed it up. Shortly thereafter he's looking pretty tired, and the Schleck brothers? Quick little jumps then pull over.
>
> Andy would come up from behind, look like he was going to take off, but instead pull into position behind Kohl, directly in front of Cadel.
>
> Then focus on Satre's breathing. The guy is totally under control. Everything smooth, while the guys behind him are all over the road, with Phil noting a "huge attack from Schleck" which went nowhere, but seemed to set up some sort of agreement between Frank & Valverde that amounted to... nothing.
>
> So I'm torn between the idea that all of these guys were just totally spent and the thought of dragging anyone up the hill behind them seemed too great a price to pay to win the 'Tour, or was it actually the Schleck brothers deliberately messing up the chase group so Sastre could win the 'tour?
>
> --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReactionBicycles.com


I think the Schlecks could have taken off but Schleckrificed
themselves for Sastre, probably on orders from the team car. I don't
think it will work in the end.

[Morten Reippuert Knudsen]

On 2008-07-23 19:17:56 +0200, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <mikej1@ix.netcom.com> said:

> or was it actually the
> Schleck brothers deliberately messing up the chase group so Sastre could
> win the 'tour?

It was.

Andy shleck could easily have gone with Sastre, but tactics ditaded
that he and Frank should slow down the evans group and by tireing evans
with small accelerations and disrupting Evans rythem.

--
mvh. Morten Reippuert Knudsen

"Besides, if you can't get a decent kernal panic
or two in a month, what's the point of living?"

[Davey Crockett]

Nobody a écrit profondement:

| On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 10:17:56 -0700, "Mike Jacoubowsky"
|
| (I'm going to top post here, b/c of Mike's newsreader wordwrap)

Use Emacs/Gnus and hit "W w"

Still a drag but straightens the problem in a hurry on the newsreader

--
Davey Crockett

[DirtRoadie]

Nobody wrote:

> I'm torn also, b/c they burnt the Schleck brother's matches to give
> Sastre the stage and yellow jersey, but that isn't the way to manage
> the team member who is in yellow at the time, is it?

Maybe, maybe not. Seems pretty clever to use the maillot jaune as a
decoy and have a strong enough team to pull it off AND take up the
slack. Frank Schleck didn't look nearly as strong as brother Andy
today, but then it's not always easy to tell.
It appears that CSC does work well as a full team, rather than as a
designated leader surrounded by domestiques. It interesting to watch
them use their options.

DR

[Kurgan Gringioni]

On Jul 23, 10:28*am, Nobody<nob...@nowhere.net> wrote:
> On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 10:17:56 -0700, "Mike Jacoubowsky"
>
> (I'm going to top post here, b/c of Mike's newsreader wordwrap)
>
> I'm torn also, b/c they burnt the Schleck brother's matches to give
> Sastre the stage and yellow jersey, but that isn't the way to manage
> the team member who is in yellow at the time, is it?
>
> They may have ended up merely giving Sastre the stage, and the Yellow,
> but burning the Schlecks, and the team, may end up losing the tour.




Dumbass -


It was the correct play. They had to get one of their guys with a
decent amount of time cushion on Evans and there's no way he would let
F. Schleck go up the road. He was 7(?) seconds ahead and in yellow
while Sastre was 30 some odd seconds behind. Evans has shown he
doesn't have the legs to cover everything so he picked whom he was
going to cover: the obvious one, F. Schleck.

CSC played it perfectly. Eventually they may not win since they can't
TT, but tactically they rode a fine, fine race.


thanks,

K. Gringioni.

[Ken Prager]

Davey Crockett <rec@azurservers.com> wrote:

> Nobody a écrit profondement:
>
> | On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 10:17:56 -0700, "Mike Jacoubowsky"
> |
> | (I'm going to top post here, b/c of Mike's newsreader wordwrap)
>
> Use Emacs/Gnus and hit "W w"
>
> Still a drag but straightens the problem in a hurry on the newsreader

Look at Davey Crockett letting his neckbeard flag fly...

[Morten Reippuert Knudsen]

On 2008-07-24 01:09:18 +0200, Larry Dickman <LDickman@comcast.net> said:

> In article <zHJhk.6496$cn7.5464@flpi145.ffdc.sbc.com>,
> "Mike Jacoubowsky" <mikej1@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
>> Run your TIvo/DVR back to 12.6k to go on the Alpe d'Huez climb, and you'll
>> see the moment that Sastre may have won the 'TdF.
>
> Dumbass
>
> I doubt it. Evans will make up the current 1:34 time deficit and more in
> the final time trial. In Stage 4, Evans finished 1:16 ahead of Sastre in
> a 29.5km time trial. The Stage 20 time trial is 53km (almost twice as
> long). See
> http://tour-de-france.velonews.com/article/80660/who-won-sastre-or-evans

Vuelta 2007 stage 8. 55km TT a fresh evans beat Sastre with 1,37m

Vuelta 2007 stage 21, 22km TT a tired Evans beat Sastre with 0,22m.

I'd say i will be very close. Evans is tired while Sastre is goining
stronger day by day.

--
mvh. Morten Reippuert Knudsen

"Besides, if you can't get a decent kernal panic
or two in a month, what's the point of living?"

[SLAVE of THE STATE]

On Jul 23, 11:29*pm, Bret Wade <bret.w...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
> > Run your TIvo/DVR back to 12.6k to go on the Alpe d'Huez climb, and you'll see the moment that Sastre may have won the 'TdF. Mario Aerts wasn't up to the task at hand, and when he pulls over, everyone else starts moving all over the road, nobody wanting to take the lead. Kohl was the big surprise to me; he had an opportunity there and passed it up. Shortly thereafter he's looking pretty tired, and the Schleck brothers? Quick little jumps then pull over.
>
> > Andy would come up from behind, look like he was going to take off, but instead pull into position behind Kohl, directly in front of Cadel.
>
> > Then focus on Satre's breathing. The guy is totally under control. Everything smooth, while the guys behind him are all over the road, with Phil noting a "huge attack from Schleck" which went nowhere, but seemed to set up some sort of agreement between Frank & Valverde that amounted to... nothing.
>
> > So I'm torn between the idea that all of these guys were just totally spent and the thought of dragging anyone up the hill behind them seemed too great a price to pay to win the 'Tour, or was it actually the Schleck brothers deliberately messing up the chase group so Sastre could win the 'tour?
>
> > --Mike-- * * Chain Reaction Bicycles
> >www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
>
> For me, the turning point was when Sastre took the seven pound weight
> off his top tube.

Dear Bret,

F=ma

<...>

Do you think this created a noticable forward thrust?

Cheers,
Karl Dongle

[Keith]

>Dumbass -
>
>
>It was the correct play. They had to get one of their guys with a
>decent amount of time cushion on Evans and there's no way he would let
>F. Schleck go up the road. He was 7(?) seconds ahead and in yellow
>while Sastre was 30 some odd seconds behind.

And on top of that he's a better climber than Schleck anyway.

>Evans has shown he
>doesn't have the legs to cover everything so he picked whom he was
>going to cover: the obvious one, F. Schleck.
>
>CSC played it perfectly. Eventually they may not win since they can't
>TT, but tactically they rode a fine, fine race.
>
>
>thanks,
>
>K. Gringioni.

[sluggo]

Kurgan Gringioni <kgringioni@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:38b4be1b-06a1-4301-8d64-30cfd039a70c@n33g2000pri.googlegroups.com:

> On Jul 23, 10:28*am, Nobody<nob...@nowhere.net> wrote:
>> On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 10:17:56 -0700, "Mike Jacoubowsky"
>>
>> (I'm going to top post here, b/c of Mike's newsreader wordwrap)
>>
>> I'm torn also, b/c they burnt the Schleck brother's matches to give
>> Sastre the stage and yellow jersey, but that isn't the way to manage
>> the team member who is in yellow at the time, is it?
>>
>> They may have ended up merely giving Sastre the stage, and the
>> Yellow, but burning the Schlecks, and the team, may end up losing the
>> tour.
>
>
>
>
> Dumbass -
>
>
> It was the correct play. They had to get one of their guys with a
> decent amount of time cushion on Evans and there's no way he would let
> F. Schleck go up the road. He was 7(?) seconds ahead and in yellow
> while Sastre was 30 some odd seconds behind. Evans has shown he
> doesn't have the legs to cover everything so he picked whom he was
> going to cover: the obvious one, F. Schleck.
>
> CSC played it perfectly. Eventually they may not win since they can't
> TT, but tactically they rode a fine, fine race.
>
>
> thanks,
>
> K. Gringioni.

It was the right play but after hearing Schleck's interview, I'm sure it
wasn't the result they wanted. I think they really wanted Evans to
chase and catch Sastre right away, at which point FS would take it to
the top. Once Sastre had the gap and it kept increasing, the Schlecks
played it perfect for the situation at hand.

Evans lucked out that it was Sastre that got 2:15 instead of the
Schlecks working together to get more than that.

[SLAVE of THE STATE]

r15...@aol.com wrote:

> I think the Schlecks could have taken off but Schleckrificed
> themselves for Sastre, probably on orders from the team car. I don't
> think it will work in the end.

Okay.

Riddle this: How many times does Evans have to puncture/crash in the
TT for Sastre or Heck Schleck to win?


-----------------------
> On Jul 23, 11:17 am, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <mik...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:

.... something with a client worse that Google.

[Michael Press]

In article
<b673b872-087d-48b2-8fdf-a93e5e9d7be6@p31g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
r15757@aol.com wrote:

> On Jul 23, 11:17 am, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <mik...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> > Run your TIvo/DVR back to 12.6k to go on the Alpe d'Huez climb, and you'll see the moment that Sastre may have won the 'TdF. Mario Aerts wasn't up to the task at hand, and when he pulls over, everyone else starts moving all over the road, nobody wanting to take the lead. Kohl was the big surprise to me; he had an opportunity there and passed it up. Shortly thereafter he's looking pretty tired, and the Schleck brothers? Quick little jumps then pull over.
> >
> > Andy would come up from behind, look like he was going to take off, but instead pull into position behind Kohl, directly in front of Cadel.
> >
> > Then focus on Satre's breathing. The guy is totally under control. Everything smooth, while the guys behind him are all over the road, with Phil noting a "huge attack from Schleck" which went nowhere, but seemed to set up some sort of agreement between Frank & Valverde that amounted to... nothing.
> >
> > So I'm torn between the idea that all of these guys were just totally spent and the thought of dragging anyone up the hill behind them seemed too great a price to pay to win the 'Tour, or was it actually the Schleck brothers deliberately messing up the chase group so Sastre could win the 'tour?
> >
> > --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReactionBicycles.com
>
>
> I think the Schlecks could have taken off but Schleckrificed
> themselves for Sastre, probably on orders from the team car. I don't
> think it will work in the end.

Evans _had_ to cover Frank's "attacks", but he or his DS
probably calculated that CSC

* would not chase down Sastre
* did not want to tow Evans closer to Sastre
* knew that FS could not shake The Remora

Therefore Evans did not have to work hard
chasing, or waste nervous energy worrying.

--
Michael Press

[Morten Reippuert Knudsen]

On 2008-07-24 23:15:42 +0200, r15757@aol.com said:

> On Jul 23, 11:17 am, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <mik...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>> Run your TIvo/DVR back to 12.6k to go on the Alpe d'Huez climb, and
>> you'll see the moment that Sastre may have won the 'TdF. Mario Aerts
>> wasn't up to the task at hand, and when he pulls over, everyone else
>> starts moving all over the road, nobody wanting to take the lead. Kohl
>> was the big surprise to me; he had an opportunity there and passed it
>> up. Shortly thereafter he's looking pretty tired, and the Schleck
>> brothers? Quick little jumps then pull over.
>>
>> Andy would come up from behind, look like he was going to take off, but
>> instead pull into position behind Kohl, directly in front of Cadel.
>>
>> Then focus on Satre's breathing. The guy is totally under control.
>> Everything smooth, while the guys behind him are all over the road,
>> with Phil noting a "huge attack from Schleck" which went nowhere, but
>> seemed to set up some sort of agreement between Frank & Valverde that
>> amounted to... nothing.
>>
>> So I'm torn between the idea that all of these guys were just totally
>> spent and the thought of dragging anyone up the hill behind them seemed
>> too great a price to pay to win the 'Tour, or was it actually the
>> Schleck brothers deliberately messing up the chase group so Sastre
>> could win the 'tour?
>>
>> --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReactionBicycles.com
>
>
> I think the Schlecks could have taken off but Schleckrificed
> themselves for Sastre, probably on orders from the team car. I don't
> think it will work in the end.

Tactics where:

Sastre was suposed to attack from the bottom as he did.

If Sastre had faild to make the selection Frank was supposed to counter
attack within the first 1,5km.

Andy was supposed to do just what he did regardless of whom got away.
If played properly tactic would have allowed the stuck CSC rider to try
to jump away from evans once the gap to the CSC rider in front had
grown to 1-1,30. Frank tried it a few times with Valverde but Kohl,
Vandevelde and the AGR2 guys kept dragging Evans along. After seeing
that Frank had to wait with his attack until the final 2km.

On paper the tactic favoured Frank since nobody could have predicted
that the first attack would succed.

The strongest man on the hill as on (every hille exept Hautacam) was of
course Andy Schleck - unfortunatly Jens Voigt killed him on Tourmalet
and afterwards he paniced and bonked on Hautacam.

--
mvh. Morten Reippuert Knudsen

"Besides, if you can't get a decent kernal panic
or two in a month, what's the point of living?"

[Kurgan Gringioni]

On Jul 24, 3:59*pm, Michael Press <rub...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> In article
> <b673b872-087d-48b2-8fdf-a93e5e9d7...@p31g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
>
>
>
>
>
> *r15...@aol.com wrote:
> > On Jul 23, 11:17 am, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <mik...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> > > Run your TIvo/DVR back to 12.6k to go on the Alpe d'Huez climb, and you'll see the moment that Sastre may have won the 'TdF. Mario Aerts wasn't up to the task at hand, and when he pulls over, everyone else starts moving all over the road, nobody wanting to take the lead. Kohl was the big surprise to me; he had an opportunity there and passed it up. Shortly thereafter he's looking pretty tired, and the Schleck brothers? Quick little jumps then pull over.
>
> > > Andy would come up from behind, look like he was going to take off, but instead pull into position behind Kohl, directly in front of Cadel.
>
> > > Then focus on Satre's breathing. The guy is totally under control. Everything smooth, while the guys behind him are all over the road, with Phil noting a "huge attack from Schleck" which went nowhere, but seemed to set up some sort of agreement between Frank & Valverde that amounted to... nothing.
>
> > > So I'm torn between the idea that all of these guys were just totally spent and the thought of dragging anyone up the hill behind them seemed too great a price to pay to win the 'Tour, or was it actually the Schleck brothers deliberately messing up the chase group so Sastre could win the 'tour?
>
> > > --Mike-- * * Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReactionBicycles.com
>
> > I think the Schlecks could have taken off but Schleckrificed
> > themselves for Sastre, probably on orders from the team car. I don't
> > think it will work in the end.
>
> Evans _had_ to cover Frank's "attacks", but he or his DS
> probably calculated that CSC
>
> * *would not chase down Sastre
> * *did not want to tow Evans closer to Sastre
> * *knew that FS could not shake The Remora
>
> Therefore Evans did not have to work hard
> chasing, or waste nervous energy worrying.



Dumbass -


Did you watch the last 3k of the climb?


thanks,

K. Gringioni.

[r15757@aol.com]

On Jul 24, 6:11 pm, Keith <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
> >Dumbass -
>
> >It was the correct play. They had to get one of their guys with a
> >decent amount of time cushion on Evans and there's no way he would let
> >F. Schleck go up the road. He was 7(?) seconds ahead and in yellow
> >while Sastre was 30 some odd seconds behind.
>
> And on top of that he's a better climber than Schleck anyway.

IMO the move 'worked' precisely because Schleck(s) is the better
climber.

(I don't think Sastre made enough time, though. We'll know before too
long.)

Robert

[Keith]

On Thu, 24 Jul 2008 18:09:45 -0700 (PDT), r15757@aol.com wrote:

>On Jul 24, 6:11 pm, Keith <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
>> >Dumbass -
>>
>> >It was the correct play. They had to get one of their guys with a
>> >decent amount of time cushion on Evans and there's no way he would let
>> >F. Schleck go up the road. He was 7(?) seconds ahead and in yellow
>> >while Sastre was 30 some odd seconds behind.
>>
>> And on top of that he's a better climber than Schleck anyway.
>
>IMO the move 'worked' precisely because Schleck(s) is the better
>climber.

Andy maybe, when he doesn't bonk, Franck definitely not.

>(I don't think Sastre made enough time, though. We'll know before too
>long.)
>
>Robert

[Michael Press]

In article
<20dd101d-ea09-4012-baf1-b3b9d5ce0460@j1g2000prb.googlegroups.com>,
Kurgan Gringioni <kgringioni@hotmail.com> wrote:

> On Jul 24, 3:59*pm, Michael Press <rub...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> > In article
> > <b673b872-087d-48b2-8fdf-a93e5e9d7...@p31g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > *r15...@aol.com wrote:
> > > On Jul 23, 11:17 am, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <mik...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> > > > Run your TIvo/DVR back to 12.6k to go on the Alpe d'Huez climb, and you'll see the moment that Sastre may have won the 'TdF. Mario Aerts wasn't up to the task at hand, and when he pulls over, everyone else starts moving all over the road, nobody wanting to take the lead. Kohl was the big surprise to me; he had an opportunity there and passed it up. Shortly thereafter he's looking pretty tired, and the Schleck brothers? Quick little jumps then pull over.
> >
> > > > Andy would come up from behind, look like he was going to take off, but instead pull into position behind Kohl, directly in front of Cadel.
> >
> > > > Then focus on Satre's breathing. The guy is totally under control. Everything smooth, while the guys behind him are all over the road, with Phil noting a "huge attack from Schleck" which went nowhere, but seemed to set up some sort of agreement between Frank & Valverde that amounted to... nothing.
> >
> > > > So I'm torn between the idea that all of these guys were just totally spent and the thought of dragging anyone up the hill behind them seemed too great a price to pay to win the 'Tour, or was it actually the Schleck brothers deliberately messing up the chase group so Sastre could win the 'tour?
> >
> > > > --Mike-- * * Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReactionBicycles.com
> >
> > > I think the Schlecks could have taken off but Schleckrificed
> > > themselves for Sastre, probably on orders from the team car. I don't
> > > think it will work in the end.
> >
> > Evans _had_ to cover Frank's "attacks", but he or his DS
> > probably calculated that CSC
> >
> > * *would not chase down Sastre
> > * *did not want to tow Evans closer to Sastre
> > * *knew that FS could not shake The Remora
> >
> > Therefore Evans did not have to work hard
> > chasing, or waste nervous energy worrying.
>
>
>
> Dumbass -
>
>
> Did you watch the last 3k of the climb?

Yes. Evan's calculated his reserves to a nicety
and pulled back some time. What did you see?

--
Michael Press

[Kurgan Gringioni]

On Jul 24, 9:37*pm, Michael Press <rub...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> In article
> <20dd101d-ea09-4012-baf1-b3b9d5ce0...@j1g2000prb.googlegroups.com>,
> *Kurgan Gringioni <kgringi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jul 24, 3:59*pm, Michael Press <rub...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> > > In article
> > > <b673b872-087d-48b2-8fdf-a93e5e9d7...@p31g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
>
> > > *r15...@aol.com wrote:
> > > > On Jul 23, 11:17 am, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <mik...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> > > > > Run your TIvo/DVR back to 12.6k to go on the Alpe d'Huez climb, and you'll see the moment that Sastre may have won the 'TdF. Mario Aerts wasn't up to the task at hand, and when he pulls over, everyone else starts moving all over the road, nobody wanting to take the lead. Kohl was the big surprise to me; he had an opportunity there and passed it up. Shortly thereafter he's looking pretty tired, and the Schleck brothers? Quick little jumps then pull over.
>
> > > > > Andy would come up from behind, look like he was going to take off, but instead pull into position behind Kohl, directly in front of Cadel.
>
> > > > > Then focus on Satre's breathing. The guy is totally under control.. Everything smooth, while the guys behind him are all over the road, with Phil noting a "huge attack from Schleck" which went nowhere, but seemed to set up some sort of agreement between Frank & Valverde that amounted to... nothing.
>
> > > > > So I'm torn between the idea that all of these guys were just totally spent and the thought of dragging anyone up the hill behind them seemed too great a price to pay to win the 'Tour, or was it actually the Schleck brothers deliberately messing up the chase group so Sastre could win the 'tour?
>
> > > > > --Mike-- * * Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReactionBicycles..com
>
> > > > I think the Schlecks could have taken off but Schleckrificed
> > > > themselves for Sastre, probably on orders from the team car. I don't
> > > > think it will work in the end.
>
> > > Evans _had_ to cover Frank's "attacks", but he or his DS
> > > probably calculated that CSC
>
> > > * *would not chase down Sastre
> > > * *did not want to tow Evans closer to Sastre
> > > * *knew that FS could not shake The Remora
>
> > > Therefore Evans did not have to work hard
> > > chasing, or waste nervous energy worrying.
>
> > Dumbass -
>
> > Did you watch the last 3k of the climb?
>
> Yes. Evan's calculated his reserves to a nicety
> and pulled back some time. What did you see?




Dumbass -


I thought he waited too long.


thanks,

K. Gringioni.

[Morten Reippuert Knudsen]

On 2008-07-25 06:37:28 +0200, Michael Press <rubrum@pacbell.net> said:

> Yes. Evan's calculated his reserves to a nicety
> and pulled back some time. What did you see?

he only managed to pull back 8 seconds - 4 of those because Sastra
decided to celebrate.

Usually on that particular hill the chase group pulls back arround
30-60 seconds within the last 3km.


--
mvh. Morten Reippuert Knudsen

"Besides, if you can't get a decent kernal panic
or two in a month, what's the point of living?"

[Howard Kveck]

In article <Xns9AE5E9DDEA643sluggoattelusnet@199.185.223.74>,
sluggo <sluggo@telus.net> wrote:

> Kurgan Gringioni <kgringioni@hotmail.com> wrote in
> news:38b4be1b-06a1-4301-8d64-30cfd039a70c@n33g2000pri.googlegroups.com:

> > It was the correct play. They had to get one of their guys with a
> > decent amount of time cushion on Evans and there's no way he would let
> > F. Schleck go up the road. He was 7(?) seconds ahead and in yellow
> > while Sastre was 30 some odd seconds behind. Evans has shown he
> > doesn't have the legs to cover everything so he picked whom he was
> > going to cover: the obvious one, F. Schleck.
> >
> > CSC played it perfectly. Eventually they may not win since they can't
> > TT, but tactically they rode a fine, fine race.

> It was the right play but after hearing Schleck's interview, I'm sure it
> wasn't the result they wanted. I think they really wanted Evans to
> chase and catch Sastre right away, at which point FS would take it to
> the top. Once Sastre had the gap and it kept increasing, the Schlecks
> played it perfect for the situation at hand.

They may have preferred to have Frank Schleck gain time but it was definitely a
result they can work with, and be happy with. For one thing, Sastre is older and the
Schlecks have plenty of time to grow into future GT wins.

> Evans lucked out that it was Sastre that got 2:15 instead of the
> Schlecks working together to get more than that.

I think Frank was not really up to gaining much on that stage, as I think he
seemed a bit cooked from the previous days (though not so cooked that he couldn't
stay where he was in the group).

--
tanx,
Howard

The bloody pubs are bloody dull
The bloody clubs are bloody full
Of bloody girls and bloody guys
With bloody murder in their eyes

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

[Keith]

>Tactics where:
>
>Sastre was suposed to attack from the bottom as he did.
>
>If Sastre had faild to make the selection Frank was supposed to counter
>attack within the first 1,5km.
>
>Andy was supposed to do just what he did regardless of whom got away.
>If played properly tactic would have allowed the stuck CSC rider to try
>to jump away from evans once the gap to the CSC rider in front had
>grown to 1-1,30. Frank tried it a few times with Valverde but Kohl,
>Vandevelde and the AGR2 guys kept dragging Evans along. After seeing
>that Frank had to wait with his attack until the final 2km.
>
>On paper the tactic favoured Frank since nobody could have predicted
>that the first attack would succed.
>
>The strongest man on the hill as on (every hille exept Hautacam) was of
>course Andy Schleck - unfortunatly Jens Voigt killed him on Tourmalet
>and afterwards he paniced and bonked on Hautacam.

You're either well informed or very clever, it's unusual on RBR where
most posters ar dim and clueless about TDF history and tactics.