Words of wisdom by a cycling journalist [Archive]

Ryan Cousineau

01-04-1970, 03:57 PM

In article <873am05ln0.fsf@azurservers.com>,
Davey Crockett <rec@azurservers.com> wrote:

> "But why have these single-speed machines (he's talking about riding
> your trackie on the road - Davey) suddenly become more coveted
> than a mountain bike with 30 gears (which make riding uphill easier)
> and comfy suspension? To understand why "fixies" are a must-have item
> today, one needs to know their history. Even the Tour de France was
> ridden on fixed-gear bicycles until the invention of the freewheel in
> 1897. (Tour organizer Henri Desgrange lamented the switch to freewheel
> machines in 1902, saying: "We're getting soft . . . As for me, give me
> a fixed gear!") And fixed-gear bikes continue to be used for keirin
> (track racing) in Japan, where races are fought out on a steeply
> banked velodrome."

Uhh...wow.

I think fixies are popular because they're fun, they're novel, and
fashion is cyclical. But then, i also think that about 30-speed mountain
bikes, which I have to say are even more novel than fixies, not to say
rarer.

Who wrote this anyways? It's even worse than Kimmage's report from a day
or two ago suggeting Vande Velde might win the Tour:

<http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/more_sport/cycling/article4364306
..ece>

Couldn't have been a much better jinx if Sports Illustrated had put him
on the cover.

At least Kimmage knew he was guessing.

In a Kunichian attempt to turn this post to my own experience, I just
bought a frame with track ends, my only one other than a BMX. I'm going
to use it for cyclocross.

With an 8-speed gearhub.

It's a Norco 5Hun dirt jump frame.

Wacky wacky wacky,

--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@gmail.com http://www.wiredcola.com/
"In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
"In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."

Bill C

01-04-1970, 03:59 PM

On Jul 23, 9:41*pm, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> In a Kunichian attempt to turn this post to my own experience, I just
> bought a frame with track ends, my only one other than a BMX. I'm going
> to use it for cyclocross.
>
> With an 8-speed gearhub.
>
> It's a Norco 5Hun dirt jump frame.
>
> Wacky wacky wacky,
>
> --
> Ryan Cousineau rcous...@gmail.comhttp://www.wiredcola.com/
> "In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
> "In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."

Cool, going single ring, and bar ends too?
Bill C

Ryan Cousineau

01-04-1970, 04:01 PM

In article
<4b21cc48-3671-42a8-bcdd-ae98d2711d07@u12g2000prd.googlegroups.com>,
Bill C <tritonrider@verizon.net> wrote:

> On Jul 23, 9:41*pm, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > In a Kunichian attempt to turn this post to my own experience, I just
> > bought a frame with track ends, my only one other than a BMX. I'm going
> > to use it for cyclocross.
> >
> > With an 8-speed gearhub.
> >
> > It's a Norco 5Hun dirt jump frame.
> >
> > Wacky wacky wacky,
> >
> > --
> > Ryan Cousineau rcous...@gmail.comhttp://www.wiredcola.com/
> > "In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
> > "In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."
>
> Cool, going single ring, and bar ends too?
> Bill C

The single ring is sort of the point, but in CX if you think you're
climbing, you probably should run.

--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@gmail.com http://www.wiredcola.com/
"In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
"In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."

Michael Press

01-04-1970, 04:04 PM

In article
<rcousine-27ECC9.18070224072008@[74.223.185.199.nw.nuvox.net]>,
Ryan Cousineau <rcousine@gmail.com> wrote:

> In article
> <4b21cc48-3671-42a8-bcdd-ae98d2711d07@u12g2000prd.googlegroups.com>,
> Bill C <tritonrider@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > On Jul 23, 9:41*pm, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > In a Kunichian attempt to turn this post to my own experience, I just
> > > bought a frame with track ends, my only one other than a BMX. I'm going
> > > to use it for cyclocross.
> > >
> > > With an 8-speed gearhub.
> > >
> > > It's a Norco 5Hun dirt jump frame.
> > >
> > > Wacky wacky wacky,
> > >
> > > --
> > > Ryan Cousineau rcous...@gmail.comhttp://www.wiredcola.com/
> > > "In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
> > > "In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."
> >
> > Cool, going single ring, and bar ends too?
> > Bill C
>
> The single ring is sort of the point, but in CX if you think you're
> climbing, you probably should run.

That is interesting. Watching the climbs in a road race
you see drunks running uphill and getting dropped by
the cyclists. You can save time and energy carrying
your bicycle up hill?

--
Michael Press

Bill C

01-04-1970, 04:10 PM

On Jul 25, 6:45*pm, Michael Press <rub...@pacbell.net> wrote:

> That is interesting. Watching the climbs in a road race
> you see drunks running uphill and getting dropped by
> the cyclists. You can save time and energy carrying
> your bicycle up hill?
>
> --
> Michael Press- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

The race here, in Putney Vt. has a run-up that ends up being closer to
a crawl up sometimes. I've been amazed though at some of the stuff the
really good riders do ride though.
Watched a couple of the pros at Gloucester one year who were
determined to ride through the sand pits and kept trying it, until a
couple of Jrs. came flying up, dismounted, and then ran right past
them like they were standing still, so it works both ways. It's
amazing how smooth and fluid the Euro guys in particular are at the
dismount, carry, remount sequence. It just looks effortless.
Bill C

Ryan Cousineau

01-04-1970, 04:10 PM

In article <rubrum-AD1D67.15452725072008@news.sf.sbcglobal.net>,
Michael Press <rubrum@pacbell.net> wrote:

> In article
> <rcousine-27ECC9.18070224072008@[74.223.185.199.nw.nuvox.net]>,
> Ryan Cousineau <rcousine@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > In article
> > <4b21cc48-3671-42a8-bcdd-ae98d2711d07@u12g2000prd.googlegroups.com>,
> > Bill C <tritonrider@verizon.net> wrote:
> >
> > > On Jul 23, 9:41*pm, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > In a Kunichian attempt to turn this post to my own experience, I just
> > > > bought a frame with track ends, my only one other than a BMX. I'm going
> > > > to use it for cyclocross.
> > > >
> > > > With an 8-speed gearhub.
> > > >
> > > > It's a Norco 5Hun dirt jump frame.
> > > >
> > > > Wacky wacky wacky,

> > > Cool, going single ring, and bar ends too?
> > > Bill C
> >
> > The single ring is sort of the point, but in CX if you think you're
> > climbing, you probably should run.
>
> That is interesting. Watching the climbs in a road race
> you see drunks running uphill and getting dropped by
> the cyclists. You can save time and energy carrying
> your bicycle up hill?

Not those hills. Also, if the drunks were fast enough to match the
cyclists, they would be riding in the Tour, not drinking and running
uphill.

My legit CX bike has something like 50-36 compact and 12-25 gearing,
more or less. Partly due to my pathetic fitness, I tend to ride entire
races in the 36, but fast guys around here do run single rings, and I
think 40-46 tooth counts are typical, with what I assume is a cassette
similar to mine.

There are definitely long slogs done in low gears on some CX courses,
but the climbs I'm thinking of are the ones that are usually very short
and very steep. Typically traction is an issue or the steepness is so
great that cycling is very hard.

But your questions got me to thinking about why CXers run up hills, and
I think the answer is gain ratios, or lack thereof.

Y'all know about Sheldon's "Gain Ratio" concept of gearing, right?

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gain.html

He calculated gearing as a ratio of distance traveled by your foot to
the distance traveled by the bike. You have to know your crank length to
calculate it, but it's a sensible conception of gearing.

40x25 gearing on a CX bike (nominal 32mm tire) with 170mm cranks has a
gain ratio of 3.2:1. Even a 24 front, 34 rear (about as low a gearing as
you can buy) calculates out to a 1.4:1 gain ratio.

Not entirely coincidentally, you get the same gain ratio using that
gearing with a 26x1.9 MTB tire, which means the two tires have about the
same circumference.

But a 24x34 is a gear that I have never seen on a dedicated CX bike, and
I wouldn't expect a competitive cross-country MTB racer to use that gear
much (pro XC racers nowadays run 2-ring bikes as a matter of course;
it's the granny gear that they remove).

I think that gears much lower than a 40x25 will only come into use on
slopes so steep that balance and traction tend to become big problems:

http://grahamwatson.com/2002/koppenberg/image10.html

22% grade, rider unable to negotiate hill, commissaire car unable to
stop, and it all goes Pete Tong.

Okay, he probably had a 39x25.

My point? CX takes place on even less tractive surfaces than
cobblestones, and a 22% grade would be well within the realm of
possibility. At that point, running is better because it is a much lower
gear with much more stable traction, and most of us balance better at
low speed on our feet than on our bicycle.

It's a near thing. As Bill described in a later post, you'll often see
CX racers, even elite ones, differ on whether an obstacle should be run
or ridden.

--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@gmail.com http://www.wiredcola.com/
"In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
"In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."

bjw@mambo.ucolick.org

01-04-1970, 04:10 PM

On Jul 25, 3:45*pm, Michael Press <rub...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> In article
> <rcousine-27ECC9.18070224072008@[74.223.185.199.nw.nuvox.net]>,
> *Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > The single ring is sort of the point, but in CX if you think you're
> > climbing, you probably should run.
>
> That is interesting. Watching the climbs in a road race
> you see drunks running uphill and getting dropped by
> the cyclists. You can save time and energy carrying
> your bicycle up hill?
>

In a cyclocross race, yes. Cyclocross is a series of
short hard efforts, in between which one does even
shorter lung-upchucking maximally painful efforts.
If a hill is steep enough, running up it will be faster
than trying to gear down and spin up it. Add bad
traction or mud and the balance is often very
strongly on the side of running. Clearly, you wouldn't
want to do this in a quarter-mile climb, let alone
a TdF mountain.

You live in the Bay Area, right? There are many
cyclocross races there in the fall. Go watch some.
They are great spectator events.

Ben

Davey Crockett

01-04-1970, 04:10 PM

Bill C a écrit profondement:

|
| It's
| amazing how smooth and fluid the Euro guys in particular are at the
| dismount, carry, remount sequence. It just looks effortless.
| Bill C

The cream always comes to the top

--
Davey Crockett
-
9/11 was an Inside Job
So was 7/7 and Spain
-
See a real Lady here - formerly from OZ
http://azurservers.com:6080/nationalism/renouf.jpg

Bret Wade

01-04-1970, 04:11 PM

Ryan Cousineau wrote:
> In article <rubrum-AD1D67.15452725072008@news.sf.sbcglobal.net>,
> Michael Press <rubrum@pacbell.net> wrote:
>
>> In article
>> <rcousine-27ECC9.18070224072008@[74.223.185.199.nw.nuvox.net]>,
>> Ryan Cousineau <rcousine@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> In article
>>> <4b21cc48-3671-42a8-bcdd-ae98d2711d07@u12g2000prd.googlegroups.com>,
>>> Bill C <tritonrider@verizon.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Jul 23, 9:41 pm, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In a Kunichian attempt to turn this post to my own experience, I just
>>>>> bought a frame with track ends, my only one other than a BMX. I'm going
>>>>> to use it for cyclocross.
>>>>>
>>>>> With an 8-speed gearhub.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's a Norco 5Hun dirt jump frame.
>>>>>
>>>>> Wacky wacky wacky,
>
>>>> Cool, going single ring, and bar ends too?
>>>> Bill C
>>> The single ring is sort of the point, but in CX if you think you're
>>> climbing, you probably should run.

I did the single chain ring thing on a cross bike myself. Two years ago,
I was in a cross race and mangled my front dérailleur so badly that the
crank was blocked, and I had to run like a quarter mile to my spare
bike. Afterwards, I'm thinking what do I need a FD for anyway, it's just
trouble?! So I rebuilt the bike as a single ring bike and it was ok to
race, but not much fun to ride in general. I always had to think about
what the steepest grade I would encounter would be and if the bike could
handle it. In a fit of over compensation, I've decommissioned the bike
from racing, mounted a triple and now ride it all over the place in the
mountains. We're friends again.

Bret

Ryan Cousineau

01-04-1970, 04:12 PM

In article <7uCdnSx0bdQrXRfVnZ2dnUVZ_h7inZ2d@earthlink.com>,
Bret Wade <bret.wade@gmail.com> wrote:

> Ryan Cousineau wrote:
> > In article <rubrum-AD1D67.15452725072008@news.sf.sbcglobal.net>,
> > Michael Press <rubrum@pacbell.net> wrote:
> >
> >> In article
> >> <rcousine-27ECC9.18070224072008@[74.223.185.199.nw.nuvox.net]>,
> >> Ryan Cousineau <rcousine@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> In article
> >>> <4b21cc48-3671-42a8-bcdd-ae98d2711d07@u12g2000prd.googlegroups.com>,
> >>> Bill C <tritonrider@verizon.net> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> On Jul 23, 9:41 pm, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> In a Kunichian attempt to turn this post to my own experience, I just
> >>>>> bought a frame with track ends, my only one other than a BMX. I'm going
> >>>>> to use it for cyclocross.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> With an 8-speed gearhub.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> It's a Norco 5Hun dirt jump frame.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Wacky wacky wacky,
> >
> >>>> Cool, going single ring, and bar ends too?
> >>>> Bill C
> >>> The single ring is sort of the point, but in CX if you think you're
> >>> climbing, you probably should run.
>
>
> I did the single chain ring thing on a cross bike myself. Two years ago,
> I was in a cross race and mangled my front dérailleur so badly that the
> crank was blocked, and I had to run like a quarter mile to my spare
> bike. Afterwards, I'm thinking what do I need a FD for anyway, it's just
> trouble?! So I rebuilt the bike as a single ring bike and it was ok to
> race, but not much fun to ride in general. I always had to think about
> what the steepest grade I would encounter would be and if the bike could
> handle it. In a fit of over compensation, I've decommissioned the bike
> from racing, mounted a triple and now ride it all over the place in the
> mountains. We're friends again.
>
> Bret

That's interesting insight. I will say that I really like the compact
double on my CX bike, as I feel like that gearing will do anything. On
the other hand, I think the front ring shifting always feels like a big
deal on that machine, and it always seems...so-so. Which is not
surprising.

The octospeed will be geared low, since it will be a dire-conditions
race bike, and I'm slow.

--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@gmail.com http://www.wiredcola.com/
"In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
"In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."

Scott

01-04-1970, 04:12 PM

On Jul 26, 12:14*am, Bret Wade <bret.w...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Ryan Cousineau wrote:
> > In article <rubrum-AD1D67.15452725072...@news.sf.sbcglobal.net>,
> > *Michael Press <rub...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>
> >> In article
> >> <rcousine-27ECC9.18070224072008@[74.223.185.199.nw.nuvox.net]>,
> >> *Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>> In article
> >>> <4b21cc48-3671-42a8-bcdd-ae98d2711...@u12g2000prd.googlegroups.com>,
> >>> *Bill C <tritonri...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> >>>> On Jul 23, 9:41 pm, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>>>> In a Kunichian attempt to turn this post to my own experience, I just
> >>>>> bought a frame with track ends, my only one other than a BMX. I'm going
> >>>>> to use it for cyclocross.
>
> >>>>> With an 8-speed gearhub.
>
> >>>>> It's a Norco 5Hun dirt jump frame.
>
> >>>>> Wacky wacky wacky,
>
> >>>> Cool, going single ring, and bar ends too?
> >>>> *Bill C
> >>> The single ring is sort of the point, but in CX if you think you're
> >>> climbing, you probably should run.
>
> I did the single chain ring thing on a cross bike myself. Two years ago,
> I was in a cross race and mangled my front dérailleur so badly that the
> crank was blocked, and I had to run like a quarter mile to my spare
> bike. Afterwards, I'm thinking what do I need a FD for anyway, it's just
> trouble?! So I rebuilt the bike as a single ring bike and it was ok to
> race, but not much fun to ride in general. I always had to think about
> what the steepest grade I would encounter would be and if the bike could
> handle it. In a fit of over compensation, I've decommissioned the bike
> from racing, mounted a triple and now ride it all over the place in the
> mountains. We're friends again.
>
> Bret- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Careful now,... you'll soon have TK telling you you know less about
'cross than you do about sprinting!

Tom Kunich

01-04-1970, 04:12 PM

"Bret Wade" <bret.wade@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:7uCdnSx0bdQrXRfVnZ2dnUVZ_h7inZ2d@earthlink.co m...
>
> In a fit of over compensation, I've decommissioned the bike from racing,
> mounted a triple and now ride it all over the place in the mountains.
> We're friends again.

I did the same with my Raleigh factory bike.

Bret Wade

01-04-1970, 04:12 PM

Ryan Cousineau wrote:
> In article <7uCdnSx0bdQrXRfVnZ2dnUVZ_h7inZ2d@earthlink.com>,
> Bret Wade <bret.wade@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Ryan Cousineau wrote:
>>> In article <rubrum-AD1D67.15452725072008@news.sf.sbcglobal.net>,
>>> Michael Press <rubrum@pacbell.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In article
>>>> <rcousine-27ECC9.18070224072008@[74.223.185.199.nw.nuvox.net]>,
>>>> Ryan Cousineau <rcousine@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In article
>>>>> <4b21cc48-3671-42a8-bcdd-ae98d2711d07@u12g2000prd.googlegroups.com>,
>>>>> Bill C <tritonrider@verizon.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Jul 23, 9:41 pm, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In a Kunichian attempt to turn this post to my own experience, I just
>>>>>>> bought a frame with track ends, my only one other than a BMX. I'm going
>>>>>>> to use it for cyclocross.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> With an 8-speed gearhub.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's a Norco 5Hun dirt jump frame.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Wacky wacky wacky,
>>>>>> Cool, going single ring, and bar ends too?
>>>>>> Bill C
>>>>> The single ring is sort of the point, but in CX if you think you're
>>>>> climbing, you probably should run.
>>
>> I did the single chain ring thing on a cross bike myself. Two years ago,
>> I was in a cross race and mangled my front dérailleur so badly that the
>> crank was blocked, and I had to run like a quarter mile to my spare
>> bike. Afterwards, I'm thinking what do I need a FD for anyway, it's just
>> trouble?! So I rebuilt the bike as a single ring bike and it was ok to
>> race, but not much fun to ride in general. I always had to think about
>> what the steepest grade I would encounter would be and if the bike could
>> handle it. In a fit of over compensation, I've decommissioned the bike
>> from racing, mounted a triple and now ride it all over the place in the
>> mountains. We're friends again.
>>
>> Bret
>
> That's interesting insight. I will say that I really like the compact
> double on my CX bike, as I feel like that gearing will do anything. On
> the other hand, I think the front ring shifting always feels like a big
> deal on that machine, and it always seems...so-so. Which is not
> surprising.
>
> The octospeed will be geared low, since it will be a dire-conditions
> race bike, and I'm slow.
>

I like compact doubles too but you might want to mount something smaller
that the 50 for the big ring. As you said earlier, you're not using it
in the races. Something like a 46.

What's funny is that the middle ring of my triple (32) is smaller than
the little ring of the compact double (34) that I used to use. My little
ring is a 22 and I'm using it to ride places I've never been before. The
older I get the smaller the gear I'm willing to be caught riding in.

Bret

Scott

01-04-1970, 04:12 PM

On Jul 26, 12:59*am, Bret Wade <bret.w...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Ryan Cousineau wrote:
> > In article <7uCdnSx0bdQrXRfVnZ2dnUVZ_h7in...@earthlink.com>,
> > *Bret Wade <bret.w...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> Ryan Cousineau wrote:
> >>> In article <rubrum-AD1D67.15452725072...@news.sf.sbcglobal.net>,
> >>> *Michael Press <rub...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>
> >>>> In article
> >>>> <rcousine-27ECC9.18070224072008@[74.223.185.199.nw.nuvox.net]>,
> >>>> *Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>>>> In article
> >>>>> <4b21cc48-3671-42a8-bcdd-ae98d2711...@u12g2000prd.googlegroups.com>,
> >>>>> *Bill C <tritonri...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> >>>>>> On Jul 23, 9:41 pm, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>>>>>> In a Kunichian attempt to turn this post to my own experience, I just
> >>>>>>> bought a frame with track ends, my only one other than a BMX. I'm going
> >>>>>>> to use it for cyclocross.
>
> >>>>>>> With an 8-speed gearhub.
>
> >>>>>>> It's a Norco 5Hun dirt jump frame.
>
> >>>>>>> Wacky wacky wacky,
> >>>>>> Cool, going single ring, and bar ends too?
> >>>>>> *Bill C
> >>>>> The single ring is sort of the point, but in CX if you think you're
> >>>>> climbing, you probably should run.
>
> >> I did the single chain ring thing on a cross bike myself. Two years ago,
> >> I was in a cross race and mangled my front dérailleur so badly that the
> >> crank was blocked, and I had to run like a quarter mile to my spare
> >> bike. Afterwards, I'm thinking what do I need a FD for anyway, it's just
> >> trouble?! So I rebuilt the bike as a single ring bike and it was ok to
> >> race, but not much fun to ride in general. I always had to think about
> >> what the steepest grade I would encounter would be and if the bike could
> >> handle it. In a fit of over compensation, I've decommissioned the bike
> >> from racing, mounted a triple and now ride it all over the place in the
> >> mountains. We're friends again.
>
> >> Bret
>
> > That's interesting insight. I will say that I really like the compact
> > double on my CX bike, as I feel like that gearing will do anything. On
> > the other hand, I think the front ring shifting always feels like a big
> > deal on that machine, and it always seems...so-so. Which is not
> > surprising.
>
> > The octospeed will be geared low, since it will be a dire-conditions
> > race bike, and I'm slow.
>
> I like compact doubles too but you might want to mount something smaller
> that the 50 for the big ring. As you said earlier, you're not using it
> in the races. Something like a 46.
>
> What's funny is that the middle ring of my triple (32) is smaller than
> the little ring of the compact double (34) that I used to use. My little
> ring is a 22 and I'm using it to ride places I've never been before. The
> older I get the smaller the gear I'm willing to be caught riding in.
>
> Bret- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I did the compact thing last year, w/ a 36/46 combo up front. Turns
out that shifting works much better, but it wasn't a big deal since
practically every course in the area was reasonably suited to using
the big ring 99% of the time. Even the climbs at Frisco weren't too
bad, since most of the climbing was paved. The old Morrison
Elementary School course would've been an exception, and the Bear
Creek Park course WAS an exception.

Ryan Cousineau

01-04-1970, 04:12 PM

In article <g6idnaM03rf4VhfVnZ2dnUVZ_oninZ2d@earthlink.com>,
Bret Wade <bret.wade@gmail.com> wrote:

> Ryan Cousineau wrote:
> > In article <7uCdnSx0bdQrXRfVnZ2dnUVZ_h7inZ2d@earthlink.com>,
> > Bret Wade <bret.wade@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Ryan Cousineau wrote:
> >>> In article <rubrum-AD1D67.15452725072008@news.sf.sbcglobal.net>,
> >>> Michael Press <rubrum@pacbell.net> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> In article
> >>>> <rcousine-27ECC9.18070224072008@[74.223.185.199.nw.nuvox.net]>,
> >>>> Ryan Cousineau <rcousine@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> In article
> >>>>> <4b21cc48-3671-42a8-bcdd-ae98d2711d07@u12g2000prd.googlegroups.com>,
> >>>>> Bill C <tritonrider@verizon.net> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> On Jul 23, 9:41 pm, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@gmail.com> wrote:

> >>>>>>> to use it for cyclocross.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> With an 8-speed gearhub.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> It's a Norco 5Hun dirt jump frame.

> >>>>>> Cool, going single ring, and bar ends too?
> >>>>>> Bill C
> >>>>> The single ring is sort of the point, but in CX if you think you're
> >>>>> climbing, you probably should run.
> >>
> >> I did the single chain ring thing on a cross bike myself.
> >> Bret
> >
> > That's interesting insight. I will say that I really like the compact
> > double on my CX bike,

> > The octospeed will be geared low, since it will be a dire-conditions
> > race bike, and I'm slow.
>
> I like compact doubles too but you might want to mount something smaller
> that the 50 for the big ring. As you said earlier, you're not using it
> in the races. Something like a 46.

The nice thing about the 50 is that I used the same bike as my road
racer for most of this year. There's no way I need anything more than a
50x12 for sprinting at the speeds I can sprint at. I could probably use
a 46 for club rides and that sort of thing, but the current gearing does
everything, and I don't feel the need for more cogs.

Less fat, yes.

> What's funny is that the middle ring of my triple (32) is smaller than
> the little ring of the compact double (34) that I used to use. My little
> ring is a 22 and I'm using it to ride places I've never been before. The
> older I get the smaller the gear I'm willing to be caught riding in.

I did my 8-hour death ride on the CX bike, and could have used a bigger
cog, if not a smaller ring. No singletrack, but the long slow climbs on
mud were pretty grim, and the gearing was marginal.

That ride probably did more to inspire the idea of an internal-geared
disc-brake bike than any other experience.

--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@gmail.com http://www.wiredcola.com/
"In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
"In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."

Bret Wade

01-04-1970, 04:13 PM

Scott wrote:
> On Jul 26, 12:14 am, Bret Wade <bret.w...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Ryan Cousineau wrote:
>>> In article <rubrum-AD1D67.15452725072...@news.sf.sbcglobal.net>,
>>> Michael Press <rub...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>>>> In article
>>>> <rcousine-27ECC9.18070224072008@[74.223.185.199.nw.nuvox.net]>,
>>>> Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> In article
>>>>> <4b21cc48-3671-42a8-bcdd-ae98d2711...@u12g2000prd.googlegroups.com>,
>>>>> Bill C <tritonri...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>>>>> On Jul 23, 9:41 pm, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> In a Kunichian attempt to turn this post to my own experience, I just
>>>>>>> bought a frame with track ends, my only one other than a BMX. I'm going
>>>>>>> to use it for cyclocross.
>>>>>>> With an 8-speed gearhub.
>>>>>>> It's a Norco 5Hun dirt jump frame.
>>>>>>> Wacky wacky wacky,
>>>>>> Cool, going single ring, and bar ends too?
>>>>>> Bill C
>>>>> The single ring is sort of the point, but in CX if you think you're
>>>>> climbing, you probably should run.
>> I did the single chain ring thing on a cross bike myself. Two years ago,
>> I was in a cross race and mangled my front dérailleur so badly that the
>> crank was blocked, and I had to run like a quarter mile to my spare
>> bike. Afterwards, I'm thinking what do I need a FD for anyway, it's just
>> trouble?! So I rebuilt the bike as a single ring bike and it was ok to
>> race, but not much fun to ride in general. I always had to think about
>> what the steepest grade I would encounter would be and if the bike could
>> handle it. In a fit of over compensation, I've decommissioned the bike
>> from racing, mounted a triple and now ride it all over the place in the
>> mountains. We're friends again.
>>
>> Bret- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> Careful now,... you'll soon have TK telling you you know less about
> 'cross than you do about sprinting!

Sprinting on a cross bike is my niche. Too bad it doesn't happen often.

Bret Wade

01-04-1970, 04:13 PM

Scott wrote:
> On Jul 26, 12:14 am, Bret Wade <bret.w...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Ryan Cousineau wrote:
>>> In article <rubrum-AD1D67.15452725072...@news.sf.sbcglobal.net>,
>>> Michael Press <rub...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>>>> In article
>>>> <rcousine-27ECC9.18070224072008@[74.223.185.199.nw.nuvox.net]>,
>>>> Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> In article
>>>>> <4b21cc48-3671-42a8-bcdd-ae98d2711...@u12g2000prd.googlegroups.com>,
>>>>> Bill C <tritonri...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>>>>> On Jul 23, 9:41 pm, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> In a Kunichian attempt to turn this post to my own experience, I just
>>>>>>> bought a frame with track ends, my only one other than a BMX. I'm going
>>>>>>> to use it for cyclocross.
>>>>>>> With an 8-speed gearhub.
>>>>>>> It's a Norco 5Hun dirt jump frame.
>>>>>>> Wacky wacky wacky,
>>>>>> Cool, going single ring, and bar ends too?
>>>>>> Bill C
>>>>> The single ring is sort of the point, but in CX if you think you're
>>>>> climbing, you probably should run.
>> I did the single chain ring thing on a cross bike myself. Two years ago,
>> I was in a cross race and mangled my front dérailleur so badly that the
>> crank was blocked, and I had to run like a quarter mile to my spare
>> bike. Afterwards, I'm thinking what do I need a FD for anyway, it's just
>> trouble?! So I rebuilt the bike as a single ring bike and it was ok to
>> race, but not much fun to ride in general. I always had to think about
>> what the steepest grade I would encounter would be and if the bike could
>> handle it. In a fit of over compensation, I've decommissioned the bike
>> from racing, mounted a triple and now ride it all over the place in the
>> mountains. We're friends again.
>>
>> Bret- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> Careful now,... you'll soon have TK telling you you know less about
> 'cross than you do abouthttp://www.fischer-wade.net/wp_cross2/ sprinting!

Here are some pictures from my ride today on the Winter Park ski
mountain with the cross bike with a triple. I've included a picture of
your favorite rock garden on Ice Hill just for you.

http://www.fischer-wade.net/wp_cross2/

Bret Wade

01-04-1970, 04:13 PM

Scott wrote:
> On Jul 26, 12:59 am, Bret Wade <bret.w...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Ryan Cousineau wrote:
>>> In article <7uCdnSx0bdQrXRfVnZ2dnUVZ_h7in...@earthlink.com>,
>>> Bret Wade <bret.w...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Ryan Cousineau wrote:
>>>>> In article <rubrum-AD1D67.15452725072...@news.sf.sbcglobal.net>,
>>>>> Michael Press <rub...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>>>>>> In article
>>>>>> <rcousine-27ECC9.18070224072008@[74.223.185.199.nw.nuvox.net]>,
>>>>>> Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> In article
>>>>>>> <4b21cc48-3671-42a8-bcdd-ae98d2711...@u12g2000prd.googlegroups.com>,
>>>>>>> Bill C <tritonri...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Jul 23, 9:41 pm, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> In a Kunichian attempt to turn this post to my own experience, I just
>>>>>>>>> bought a frame with track ends, my only one other than a BMX. I'm going
>>>>>>>>> to use it for cyclocross.
>>>>>>>>> With an 8-speed gearhub.
>>>>>>>>> It's a Norco 5Hun dirt jump frame.
>>>>>>>>> Wacky wacky wacky,
>>>>>>>> Cool, going single ring, and bar ends too?
>>>>>>>> Bill C
>>>>>>> The single ring is sort of the point, but in CX if you think you're
>>>>>>> climbing, you probably should run.
>>>> I did the single chain ring thing on a cross bike myself. Two years ago,
>>>> I was in a cross race and mangled my front dérailleur so badly that the
>>>> crank was blocked, and I had to run like a quarter mile to my spare
>>>> bike. Afterwards, I'm thinking what do I need a FD for anyway, it's just
>>>> trouble?! So I rebuilt the bike as a single ring bike and it was ok to
>>>> race, but not much fun to ride in general. I always had to think about
>>>> what the steepest grade I would encounter would be and if the bike could
>>>> handle it. In a fit of over compensation, I've decommissioned the bike
>>>> from racing, mounted a triple and now ride it all over the place in the
>>>> mountains. We're friends again.
>>>> Bret
>>> That's interesting insight. I will say that I really like the compact
>>> double on my CX bike, as I feel like that gearing will do anything. On
>>> the other hand, I think the front ring shifting always feels like a big
>>> deal on that machine, and it always seems...so-so. Which is not
>>> surprising.
>>> The octospeed will be geared low, since it will be a dire-conditions
>>> race bike, and I'm slow.
>> I like compact doubles too but you might want to mount something smaller
>> that the 50 for the big ring. As you said earlier, you're not using it
>> in the races. Something like a 46.
>>
>> What's funny is that the middle ring of my triple (32) is smaller than
>> the little ring of the compact double (34) that I used to use. My little
>> ring is a 22 and I'm using it to ride places I've never been before. The
>> older I get the smaller the gear I'm willing to be caught riding in.
>>
>> Bret- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> I did the compact thing last year, w/ a 36/46 combo up front. Turns
> out that shifting works much better, but it wasn't a big deal since
> practically every course in the area was reasonably suited to using
> the big ring 99% of the time. Even the climbs at Frisco weren't too
> bad, since most of the climbing was paved. The old Morrison
> Elementary School course would've been an exception, and the Bear
> Creek Park course WAS an exception.

The Morrison course is hard. Were you there the year we rode it in deep
snow? I used a single speed mountain bike and was just able to get over
the climb each lap. I haven't raced at Bear Creek Park.

Bret

Scott

01-04-1970, 04:13 PM

On Jul 26, 7:28*am, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@gmail.com> wrote:
> In article <g6idnaM03rf4VhfVnZ2dnUVZ_onin...@earthlink.com>,
> *Bret Wade <bret.w...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Ryan Cousineau wrote:
> > > In article <7uCdnSx0bdQrXRfVnZ2dnUVZ_h7in...@earthlink.com>,
> > > *Bret Wade <bret.w...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > >> Ryan Cousineau wrote:
> > >>> In article <rubrum-AD1D67.15452725072...@news.sf.sbcglobal.net>,
> > >>> *Michael Press <rub...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>
> > >>>> In article
> > >>>> <rcousine-27ECC9.18070224072008@[74.223.185.199.nw.nuvox.net]>,
> > >>>> *Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > >>>>> In article
> > >>>>> <4b21cc48-3671-42a8-bcdd-ae98d2711...@u12g2000prd.googlegroups.com>,
> > >>>>> *Bill C <tritonri...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > >>>>>> On Jul 23, 9:41 pm, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>>>>>> to use it for cyclocross.
>
> > >>>>>>> With an 8-speed gearhub.
>
> > >>>>>>> It's a Norco 5Hun dirt jump frame.
> > >>>>>> Cool, going single ring, and bar ends too?
> > >>>>>> *Bill C
> > >>>>> The single ring is sort of the point, but in CX if you think you're
> > >>>>> climbing, you probably should run.
>
> > >> I did the single chain ring thing on a cross bike myself.
> > >> Bret
>
> > > That's interesting insight. I will say that I really like the compact
> > > double on my CX bike,
> > > The octospeed will be geared low, since it will be a dire-conditions
> > > race bike, and I'm slow.
>
> > I like compact doubles too but you might want to mount something smaller
> > that the 50 for the big ring. As you said earlier, you're not using it
> > in the races. Something like a 46.
>
> The nice thing about the 50 is that I used the same bike as my road
> racer for most of this year. There's no way I need anything more than a
> 50x12 for sprinting at the speeds I can sprint at. I could probably use
> a 46 for club rides and that sort of thing, but the current gearing does
> everything, and I don't feel the need for more cogs.
>
> --
> Ryan Cousineau rcous...@gmail.comhttp://www.wiredcola.com/
> "In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
> "In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Not to put too fine a point on it, but you can change the rings, you
know. I mean, more than once. When using the bike for 'cross, put a
46 on it. When it's time to use it on the road, put the 50 back on.

You're welcome! ;-)

Bret Wade

01-04-1970, 04:13 PM

Ryan Cousineau wrote:
> In article <g6idnaM03rf4VhfVnZ2dnUVZ_oninZ2d@earthlink.com>,
> Bret Wade <bret.wade@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Ryan Cousineau wrote:
>>> In article <7uCdnSx0bdQrXRfVnZ2dnUVZ_h7inZ2d@earthlink.com>,
>>> Bret Wade <bret.wade@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Ryan Cousineau wrote:
>>>>> In article <rubrum-AD1D67.15452725072008@news.sf.sbcglobal.net>,
>>>>> Michael Press <rubrum@pacbell.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> In article
>>>>>> <rcousine-27ECC9.18070224072008@[74.223.185.199.nw.nuvox.net]>,
>>>>>> Ryan Cousineau <rcousine@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In article
>>>>>>> <4b21cc48-3671-42a8-bcdd-ae98d2711d07@u12g2000prd.googlegroups.com>,
>>>>>>> Bill C <tritonrider@verizon.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Jul 23, 9:41 pm, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>>>>>>>> to use it for cyclocross.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> With an 8-speed gearhub.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It's a Norco 5Hun dirt jump frame.
>
>>>>>>>> Cool, going single ring, and bar ends too?
>>>>>>>> Bill C
>>>>>>> The single ring is sort of the point, but in CX if you think you're
>>>>>>> climbing, you probably should run.
>>>> I did the single chain ring thing on a cross bike myself.
>>>> Bret
>>> That's interesting insight. I will say that I really like the compact
>>> double on my CX bike,
>
>>> The octospeed will be geared low, since it will be a dire-conditions
>>> race bike, and I'm slow.
>> I like compact doubles too but you might want to mount something smaller
>> that the 50 for the big ring. As you said earlier, you're not using it
>> in the races. Something like a 46.
>
> The nice thing about the 50 is that I used the same bike as my road
> racer for most of this year. There's no way I need anything more than a
> 50x12 for sprinting at the speeds I can sprint at. I could probably use
> a 46 for club rides and that sort of thing, but the current gearing does
> everything, and I don't feel the need for more cogs.
>
> Less fat, yes.
>
>> What's funny is that the middle ring of my triple (32) is smaller than
>> the little ring of the compact double (34) that I used to use. My little
>> ring is a 22 and I'm using it to ride places I've never been before. The
>> older I get the smaller the gear I'm willing to be caught riding in.
>
> I did my 8-hour death ride on the CX bike, and could have used a bigger
> cog, if not a smaller ring. No singletrack, but the long slow climbs on
> mud were pretty grim, and the gearing was marginal.
>
> That ride probably did more to inspire the idea of an internal-geared
> disc-brake bike than any other experience.
>

What internal gear hub are you using? Nexus? I have a couple of Nexus
7sp hubs that would be more useful if they weren't so heavy. I have a
single speed ready for the really foul days.

Bret

Ryan Cousineau

01-04-1970, 04:13 PM

In article
<feceab4c-64eb-4f48-ab05-f9bcc95ef770@v13g2000pro.googlegroups.com>,
Scott <hendricks_scott@hotmail.com> wrote:

> On Jul 26, 7:28*am, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > In article <g6idnaM03rf4VhfVnZ2dnUVZ_onin...@earthlink.com>,
> > *Bret Wade <bret.w...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > Ryan Cousineau wrote:
> > > > In article <7uCdnSx0bdQrXRfVnZ2dnUVZ_h7in...@earthlink.com>,
> > > > *Bret Wade <bret.w...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > >> Ryan Cousineau wrote:
> > > >>> In article <rubrum-AD1D67.15452725072...@news.sf.sbcglobal.net>,
> > > >>> *Michael Press <rub...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> >
> > > >>>> In article
> > > >>>> <rcousine-27ECC9.18070224072008@[74.223.185.199.nw.nuvox.net]>,
> > > >>>> *Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > >>>>> In article
> > > >>>>> <4b21cc48-3671-42a8-bcdd-ae98d2711...@u12g2000prd.googlegroups.com>,
> > > >>>>> *Bill C <tritonri...@verizon.net> wrote:
> >
> > > >>>>>> On Jul 23, 9:41 pm, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >>>>>>> to use it for cyclocross.
> >
> > > >>>>>>> With an 8-speed gearhub.
> >
> > > >>>>>>> It's a Norco 5Hun dirt jump frame.
> > > >>>>>> Cool, going single ring, and bar ends too?
> > > >>>>>> *Bill C
> > > >>>>> The single ring is sort of the point, but in CX if you think you're
> > > >>>>> climbing, you probably should run.
> >
> > > >> I did the single chain ring thing on a cross bike myself.
> > > >> Bret
> >
> > > > That's interesting insight. I will say that I really like the compact
> > > > double on my CX bike,
> > > > The octospeed will be geared low, since it will be a dire-conditions
> > > > race bike, and I'm slow.
> >
> > > I like compact doubles too but you might want to mount something smaller
> > > that the 50 for the big ring. As you said earlier, you're not using it
> > > in the races. Something like a 46.
> >
> > The nice thing about the 50 is that I used the same bike as my road
> > racer for most of this year. There's no way I need anything more than a
> > 50x12 for sprinting at the speeds I can sprint at. I could probably use
> > a 46 for club rides and that sort of thing, but the current gearing does
> > everything, and I don't feel the need for more cogs.
> >
> > --
> > Ryan Cousineau rcous...@gmail.comhttp://www.wiredcola.com/
> > "In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
> > "In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."- Hide quoted text -
> >
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Not to put too fine a point on it, but you can change the rings, you
> know. I mean, more than once. When using the bike for 'cross, put a
> 46 on it. When it's time to use it on the road, put the 50 back on.
>
> You're welcome! ;-)

Much obliged. With the current gearing, I never have to change the
gearing!

Seriously, I heard my club-mates (Cat 4s) talking about gearing choices
and debating some pair of cogsets or another (one for flat races, one
for climbing).

I was all "dude! You have 10-speed cassettes! Put on a 12-25 and never
change it! If you really feel the need, go compact double!"

Which is pretty much how I feel about gearing these days: roadies doing
anything other than pro racing or loaded touring should probably mount a
12-27 with 50-34 rings and never think about their gearing ever again.

--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@gmail.com http://www.wiredcola.com/
"In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
"In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."

Scott

01-04-1970, 04:13 PM

On Jul 26, 7:46*am, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
> "Bret Wade" <bret.w...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:7uCdnSx0bdQrXRfVnZ2dnUVZ_h7inZ2d@earthlink.co m...
>
>
>
> > In a fit of over compensation, I've decommissioned the bike from racing,
> > mounted a triple and now ride it all over the place in the mountains.
> > We're friends again.
>
> I did the same with my Raleigh factory bike.

Wouldn't you have to race a bike first, before you could decommission
it from racing?

Scott

01-04-1970, 04:14 PM

On Jul 26, 10:51*am, Bret Wade <bret.w...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Scott wrote:
> > On Jul 26, 12:59 am, Bret Wade <bret.w...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Ryan Cousineau wrote:
> >>> In article <7uCdnSx0bdQrXRfVnZ2dnUVZ_h7in...@earthlink.com>,
> >>> *Bret Wade <bret.w...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>> Ryan Cousineau wrote:
> >>>>> In article <rubrum-AD1D67.15452725072...@news.sf.sbcglobal.net>,
> >>>>> *Michael Press <rub...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> >>>>>> In article
> >>>>>> <rcousine-27ECC9.18070224072008@[74.223.185.199.nw.nuvox.net]>,
> >>>>>> *Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>> In article
> >>>>>>> <4b21cc48-3671-42a8-bcdd-ae98d2711...@u12g2000prd.googlegroups.com>,
> >>>>>>> *Bill C <tritonri...@verizon.net> wrote:
> >>>>>>>> On Jul 23, 9:41 pm, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> In a Kunichian attempt to turn this post to my own experience, I just
> >>>>>>>>> bought a frame with track ends, my only one other than a BMX. I'm going
> >>>>>>>>> to use it for cyclocross.
> >>>>>>>>> With an 8-speed gearhub.
> >>>>>>>>> It's a Norco 5Hun dirt jump frame.
> >>>>>>>>> Wacky wacky wacky,
> >>>>>>>> Cool, going single ring, and bar ends too?
> >>>>>>>> *Bill C
> >>>>>>> The single ring is sort of the point, but in CX if you think you're
> >>>>>>> climbing, you probably should run.
> >>>> I did the single chain ring thing on a cross bike myself. Two years ago,
> >>>> I was in a cross race and mangled my front dérailleur so badly that the
> >>>> crank was blocked, and I had to run like a quarter mile to my spare
> >>>> bike. Afterwards, I'm thinking what do I need a FD for anyway, it's just
> >>>> trouble?! So I rebuilt the bike as a single ring bike and it was ok to
> >>>> race, but not much fun to ride in general. I always had to think about
> >>>> what the steepest grade I would encounter would be and if the bike could
> >>>> handle it. In a fit of over compensation, I've decommissioned the bike
> >>>> from racing, mounted a triple and now ride it all over the place in the
> >>>> mountains. We're friends again.
> >>>> Bret
> >>> That's interesting insight. I will say that I really like the compact
> >>> double on my CX bike, as I feel like that gearing will do anything. On
> >>> the other hand, I think the front ring shifting always feels like a big
> >>> deal on that machine, and it always seems...so-so. Which is not
> >>> surprising.
> >>> The octospeed will be geared low, since it will be a dire-conditions
> >>> race bike, and I'm slow.
> >> I like compact doubles too but you might want to mount something smaller
> >> that the 50 for the big ring. As you said earlier, you're not using it
> >> in the races. Something like a 46.
>
> >> What's funny is that the middle ring of my triple (32) is smaller than
> >> the little ring of the compact double (34) that I used to use. My little
> >> ring is a 22 and I'm using it to ride places I've never been before. The
> >> older I get the smaller the gear I'm willing to be caught riding in.
>
> >> Bret- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> - Show quoted text -
>
> > I did the compact thing last year, w/ a 36/46 combo up front. *Turns
> > out that shifting works much better, but it wasn't a big deal since
> > practically every course in the area was reasonably suited to using
> > the big ring 99% of the time. *Even the climbs at Frisco weren't too
> > bad, since most of the climbing was paved. *The old Morrison
> > Elementary School course would've been an exception, and the Bear
> > Creek Park course WAS an exception.
>
> The Morrison course is hard. Were you there the year we rode it in deep
> snow? I used a single speed mountain bike and was just able to get over
> the climb each lap. I haven't raced at Bear Creek Park.
>
> Bret- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Yep... I remember that snowy day. Didn't ride worth a damn, but got
my smile on nonetheless. Bear Creek Park is fun and FAST. Two
variations of the course each have a long-ish climb, one is easily
rideable, the other isn't. Of course, there was a barricade to turn
the climb from easily rideable to not so easily rideable.

Donald Munro

01-04-1970, 04:15 PM

Ryan Cousineau wrote:
> Which is pretty much how I feel about gearing these days: roadies doing
> anything other than pro racing or loaded touring should probably mount a
> 12-27 with 50-34 rings and never think about their gearing ever again.

If you race anyplace where there might be 50Km/h tailwinds a 50x12 can be
a little restrictive.

Ryan Cousineau

01-04-1970, 04:15 PM

In article
<rcousine-67D44C.11535826072008@[74.223.185.199.nw.nuvox.net]>,
Ryan Cousineau <rcousine@gmail.com> wrote:

Oh, and too lazy to figure out who asked what hub I was using, but
remembered I didn't answer:

I bought an Alfine 8-speed hub this year. It is very nicely made, but is
not appreciably lighter than the Nexus-7 stuff. I think the nominal
weight is something like 1500 g, which isn't terrible for something that
replaces two derailers, your rear hub, arguably a ring, and most of your
rear cassette, but it's not that good, either.

My rough calculations say a similar Shimano 105 12-25 10-speed group's
equivalent parts weigh about 1000g. The hub cost me about $300 including
all the bits and pieces except the shifter and the wheelbuild, a 105
group's equivalent parts would cost a tad less, with the proviso that
you can buy those used very cheaply, and that the MSRP of brifters
dwarfs the cost of my whole hub, never mind the $25 grip-shifter that
actually drives my hub.

What I'm saying is that bargain-hunting cyclists will find that an
Alfine is notably heavier than the equivalent 105 drivetrain, and that
how you assess the price depends on how you feel about brifters.

There are guys experimenting with Travel Agents and brifters driving
Nexus hubs, and there's adapters for running grip-shifters on drop bars.

For my cheater bike, I'll just run a flat MTB bar.

--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@gmail.com http://www.wiredcola.com/
"In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
"In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."

Scott

01-04-1970, 04:15 PM

On Jul 26, 12:54*pm, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@gmail.com> wrote:
> In article

> Seriously, I heard my club-mates (Cat 4s) talking about gearing choices
> and debating some pair of cogsets or another (one for flat races, one
> for climbing).
>
> I was all "dude! You have 10-speed cassettes! Put on a 12-25 and never
> change it! If you really feel the need, go compact double!"
>
> Which is pretty much how I feel about gearing these days: roadies doing
> anything other than pro racing or loaded touring should probably mount a
> 12-27 with 50-34 rings and never think about their gearing ever again.
>
> --
> Ryan Cousineau rcous...@gmail.comhttp://www.wiredcola.com/
> "In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
> "In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

For any hill that you need a 34x25 to get up, you'll need a 50x11 on
the backside or on the way back down. 50x12 is roughly = 53x13, which
is useable as a max gear about 95% of the time. But, for that other
5% of the time, if you don't have the gear you're just SOL.

I recently (just this past Wednesday, to be precise) put together a
new bike outfitted with compact cranks. I haven't yet gotten a cogset
with an 11, so I've used the 12x26 SRAM cogset that I already own.
Ridden the bike twice for a total of about 170 miles and have already
spun out at least 5 times. Yep, gotta get an 11 to pair up with the
50.

S.

Scott

01-04-1970, 04:15 PM

On Jul 26, 12:54*pm, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Which is pretty much how I feel about gearing these days: roadies doing
> anything other than pro racing or loaded touring should probably mount a
> 12-27 with 50-34 rings and never think about their gearing ever again.
>
> --
> Ryan Cousineau rcous...@gmail.comhttp://www.wiredcola.com/
> "In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
> "In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I have to concur with your conclusion. A 50/34 compact double w/
12/27 (or even 12/25 if you're not in the mountains) will handle
practically any imaginable situation barring a need to descend like a
drunken monkey so as to not get dropped by a racing pack. If you're
not racing, no big deal being limited to 50x12.

Ryan Cousineau

01-04-1970, 04:15 PM

In article <488b74e6$0$25411$ec3e2dad@news.usenetmonster.com>,
Donald Munro <fat-dumbass@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Ryan Cousineau wrote:
> > Which is pretty much how I feel about gearing these days: roadies doing
> > anything other than pro racing or loaded touring should probably mount a
> > 12-27 with 50-34 rings and never think about their gearing ever again.
>
> If you race anyplace where there might be 50Km/h tailwinds a 50x12 can be
> a little restrictive.

Um...is this a trick question?

--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@gmail.com http://www.wiredcola.com/
"In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
"In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."

Michael Press

01-04-1970, 04:16 PM

Howard Kveck

01-04-1970, 04:16 PM

In article <f021e8db-3893-4f3d-b05d-78c0e59fb014@d1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
"bjw@mambo.ucolick.org" <bjw@mambo.ucolick.org> wrote:

> On Jul 25, 3:45*pm, Michael Press <rub...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> > In article
> > <rcousine-27ECC9.18070224072008@[74.223.185.199.nw.nuvox.net]>,
> > *Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > The single ring is sort of the point, but in CX if you think you're
> > > climbing, you probably should run.
> >
> > That is interesting. Watching the climbs in a road race
> > you see drunks running uphill and getting dropped by
> > the cyclists. You can save time and energy carrying
> > your bicycle up hill?
> >
>
> In a cyclocross race, yes. Cyclocross is a series of
> short hard efforts, in between which one does even
> shorter lung-upchucking maximally painful efforts.
> If a hill is steep enough, running up it will be faster
> than trying to gear down and spin up it. Add bad
> traction or mud and the balance is often very
> strongly on the side of running. Clearly, you wouldn't
> want to do this in a quarter-mile climb, let alone
> a TdF mountain.
>
> You live in the Bay Area, right? There are many
> cyclocross races there in the fall. Go watch some.
> They are great spectator events.

It's also worth mentioning that sometimes promoters will put sections in the
course that really can't be ridden, like stairs that must be climbed. You ran some of
the Surf City races, didn't you, Ben? Back in the early '90s, they had a course out
at a sawmill where they ran the course over a huge pile of bark chips, as I recall.
Do you remember that, or am I hallucinating it?

For Michael, here's a link to the Pilarcitos cross series. Their races are usually
quite good.

http://www.pilarcitos.com/2008Cross.htm

And the Surf City series (it's last year's schedule, but it'll be updated if they
run it):

http://surfcitycx.blogspot.com/

--
tanx,
Howard

The bloody pubs are bloody dull
The bloody clubs are bloody full
Of bloody girls and bloody guys
With bloody murder in their eyes

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

Ryan Cousineau

01-04-1970, 04:16 PM

In article <rubrum-A8A0B9.15214326072008@news.sf.sbcglobal.net>,
Michael Press <rubrum@pacbell.net> wrote:

> In article
> <f021e8db-3893-4f3d-b05d-78c0e59fb014@d1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
> "bjw@mambo.ucolick.org" <bjw@mambo.ucolick.org> wrote:
>
> > On Jul 25, 3:45*pm, Michael Press <rub...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> > > In article
> > > <rcousine-27ECC9.18070224072008@[74.223.185.199.nw.nuvox.net]>,
> > > *Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > The single ring is sort of the point, but in CX if you think you're
> > > > climbing, you probably should run.
> > >
> > > That is interesting. Watching the climbs in a road race
> > > you see drunks running uphill and getting dropped by
> > > the cyclists. You can save time and energy carrying
> > > your bicycle up hill?
> > >
> >
> > In a cyclocross race, yes. Cyclocross is a series of
> > short hard efforts, in between which one does even
> > shorter lung-upchucking maximally painful efforts.
> > If a hill is steep enough, running up it will be faster
> > than trying to gear down and spin up it. Add bad
> > traction or mud and the balance is often very
> > strongly on the side of running. Clearly, you wouldn't
> > want to do this in a quarter-mile climb, let alone
> > a TdF mountain.
> >
> > You live in the Bay Area, right? There are many
> > cyclocross races there in the fall. Go watch some.
> > They are great spectator events.
>
> Thanks. Short steep pitch, bad traction,
> circumscribed gear range ==> carry it up the pitch.

It is important to remember that the gear range isn't that
circumscribed. If it was faster, CXers could run 34-24 rings and 11-34
cogs. OTOH, these pitches are often steep enough to suggest 1:1 gearing
as the right ratio, but at that point, well, that's the gearing your
legs naturally provide.

Steep pitches and bad traction are more fundamental issues,

--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@gmail.com http://www.wiredcola.com/
"In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
"In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."

Tom Kunich

01-04-1970, 04:17 PM

"Scott" <hendricks_scott@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3fc59a95-13ce-42cb-858f-29de5c85480e@i20g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>
> For any hill that you need a 34x25 to get up, you'll need a 50x11 on
> the backside or on the way back down. 50x12 is roughly = 53x13, which
> is useable as a max gear about 95% of the time. But, for that other
> 5% of the time, if you don't have the gear you're just SOL.

Why do I get the feeling that you're another one of those who would have
voted for a beginner Cat 5 to get a 12-23 or stay home? No wonder we made
the rec.bicycle.racing socks with an 11 tooth on it.

Bret Wade

01-04-1970, 04:17 PM

Tom Kunich wrote:
> "Scott" <hendricks_scott@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:3fc59a95-13ce-42cb-858f-29de5c85480e@i20g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> For any hill that you need a 34x25 to get up, you'll need a 50x11 on
>> the backside or on the way back down. 50x12 is roughly = 53x13, which
>> is useable as a max gear about 95% of the time. But, for that other
>> 5% of the time, if you don't have the gear you're just SOL.
>
> Why do I get the feeling that you're another one of those who would have
> voted for a beginner Cat 5 to get a 12-23 or stay home? No wonder we
> made the rec.bicycle.racing socks with an 11 tooth on it.
>

Scott is right that a 50x12 isn't enough where he lives. You are at a
disadvantage with that gear trying to keep up with a fast moving group
on one of the long canyon descents. I have personal experience with this
and now use a 50x11. I race with a SRAM 11-23 10sp cassette and have an
11-26 on my training wheel. I need the 16 for racing and the 26 for some
of the super steep climbs in the area like upper Flagstaff Mountain and
upper James Canyon.

Bret

Scott

01-04-1970, 04:17 PM

On Jul 26, 6:47*pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
> "Scott" <hendricks_sc...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:3fc59a95-13ce-42cb-858f-29de5c85480e@i20g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > For any hill that you need a 34x25 to get up, you'll need a 50x11 on
> > the backside or on the way back down. *50x12 is roughly = 53x13, which
> > is useable as a max gear about 95% of the time. *But, for that other
> > 5% of the time, if you don't have the gear you're just SOL.
>
> Why do I get the feeling that you're another one of those who would have
> voted for a beginner Cat 5 to get a 12-23 or stay home? No wonder we made
> the rec.bicycle.racing socks with an 11 tooth on it.

Tom,

I've never given a moments thought to gearing in beginner races.
Haven't got an opinion one way or another, except to say that the
individual racer should decide what they want to use.

My comments about needing an 11 were directed at those using compact
cranksets. As I'm sure you know, a 50x11 is roughly the same as a
53x12, so it's not like I'm advocating using huge gears by anyone,
especially not beginners.

Tom Kunich

01-04-1970, 04:18 PM

"Bret Wade" <bret.wade@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:xMGdnYNMtKDpSRbVnZ2dnUVZ_qninZ2d@earthlink.co m...
> Tom Kunich wrote:
>> "Scott" <hendricks_scott@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:3fc59a95-13ce-42cb-858f-29de5c85480e@i20g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>>>
>>> For any hill that you need a 34x25 to get up, you'll need a 50x11 on
>>> the backside or on the way back down. 50x12 is roughly = 53x13, which
>>> is useable as a max gear about 95% of the time. But, for that other
>>> 5% of the time, if you don't have the gear you're just SOL.
>>
>> Why do I get the feeling that you're another one of those who would have
>> voted for a beginner Cat 5 to get a 12-23 or stay home? No wonder we made
>> the rec.bicycle.racing socks with an 11 tooth on it.
>
> Scott is right that a 50x12 isn't enough where he lives. You are at a
> disadvantage with that gear trying to keep up with a fast moving group on
> one of the long canyon descents. I have personal experience with this and
> now use a 50x11. I race with a SRAM 11-23 10sp cassette and have an 11-26
> on my training wheel. I need the 16 for racing and the 26 for some of the
> super steep climbs in the area like upper Flagstaff Mountain and upper
> James Canyon.

I had a 13-23 in the races and we would hook up with the fast guys once in
awhile. I USUALLY could ride with them with the 15. After my first year I
can't even remember using the 13 except in long steep downhills. And I am
not a great spinner though at that time I could hold 150 for a long time.

Tom Kunich

01-04-1970, 04:18 PM

"Bret Wade" <bret.wade@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:77-dnUxMLe9aSxbVnZ2dnUVZ_vjinZ2d@earthlink.com...
>
> Here are some pictures from my ride today on the Winter Park ski mountain
> with the cross bike with a triple. I've included a picture of your
> favorite rock garden on Ice Hill just for you.
>
> http://www.fischer-wade.net/wp_cross2/

I sold my Santa Cruz Superlight and just ride my Raleigh Cyclocross on that
sort of stuff now. I discovered that I didn't like riding a bike that could
ride over stuff like that as if it was a perfectly smooth highway. Now back
with an off-road bike with no suspension riding off-road is fun again.

Bret Wade

01-04-1970, 04:18 PM

Tom Kunich wrote:
> "Bret Wade" <bret.wade@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:77-dnUxMLe9aSxbVnZ2dnUVZ_vjinZ2d@earthlink.com...
>>
>> Here are some pictures from my ride today on the Winter Park ski
>> mountain with the cross bike with a triple. I've included a picture of
>> your favorite rock garden on Ice Hill just for you.
>>
>> http://www.fischer-wade.net/wp_cross2/
>
> I sold my Santa Cruz Superlight and just ride my Raleigh Cyclocross on
> that sort of stuff now. I discovered that I didn't like riding a bike
> that could ride over stuff like that as if it was a perfectly smooth
> highway. Now back with an off-road bike with no suspension riding
> off-road is fun again.
>

Agreed. This would have been a fairly dull ride on my MTB (aside from
the views) and also much slower. The cross bike is considerably faster
for light trail riding. Not that there aren't great MTB options in
Winter Park too.

Ryan Cousineau

01-04-1970, 04:18 PM

In article <MYudnWaAJZhTcRbVnZ2dnUVZ_hOdnZ2d@earthlink.com>,
Bret Wade <bret.wade@gmail.com> wrote:

> Tom Kunich wrote:
> > "Bret Wade" <bret.wade@gmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:77-dnUxMLe9aSxbVnZ2dnUVZ_vjinZ2d@earthlink.com...
> >>
> >> Here are some pictures from my ride today on the Winter Park ski
> >> mountain with the cross bike with a triple. I've included a picture of
> >> your favorite rock garden on Ice Hill just for you.
> >>
> >> http://www.fischer-wade.net/wp_cross2/
> >
> > I sold my Santa Cruz Superlight and just ride my Raleigh Cyclocross on
> > that sort of stuff now. I discovered that I didn't like riding a bike
> > that could ride over stuff like that as if it was a perfectly smooth
> > highway. Now back with an off-road bike with no suspension riding
> > off-road is fun again.
> >
>
> Agreed. This would have been a fairly dull ride on my MTB (aside from
> the views) and also much slower. The cross bike is considerably faster
> for light trail riding. Not that there aren't great MTB options in
> Winter Park too.

S'funny you two should say that. On one hand, I really enjoy messing
around with my CX bike on all sorts of rides. On the other hand, the
single biggest revelation I had was my recent sojurn to a mountain bike
park riding what is apparently called a "slopestyle" bike.

On one hand, this is a skookum bike with 5" of travel, so I was
immediately hitting bigger jumps and drops than I ever have before, and
with ease. As a guy whose other MTB is an XC hardtail, this was't hard.

The other thing is that I was doing tons and tons of skinnies and other
"surface" stunts (teeter totters, logs, ladders) with ease. Some of that
was down to the easygoing handling and superfat tires.

But the other element was that a ton of travel, great brakes, and slack
front end meant that when I fouled something up (say, dropping my front
wheel off a teeter totter early) instead of bottoming out and causing me
to endo over, the bike's front end would compress, I'd stay in place,
and all of a sudden we'd be doing zero miles an hour with no drama and
I'd pedal away.

The bike made dumbass me capable of riding most of the park (virtually
all the medium-rated stunts, and some of the hard-rated surface
obstacles) after about an hour of practice.

Bike:

<http://www.bansheebikes.com/bikes/wildcard.html>

Park:

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6f_lpZoN18>

--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@gmail.com http://www.wiredcola.com/
"In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
"In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."

Bret Wade

01-04-1970, 04:18 PM

Ryan Cousineau wrote:
> In article <MYudnWaAJZhTcRbVnZ2dnUVZ_hOdnZ2d@earthlink.com>,
> Bret Wade <bret.wade@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Tom Kunich wrote:
>>> "Bret Wade" <bret.wade@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:77-dnUxMLe9aSxbVnZ2dnUVZ_vjinZ2d@earthlink.com...
>>>> Here are some pictures from my ride today on the Winter Park ski
>>>> mountain with the cross bike with a triple. I've included a picture of
>>>> your favorite rock garden on Ice Hill just for you.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.fischer-wade.net/wp_cross2/
>>> I sold my Santa Cruz Superlight and just ride my Raleigh Cyclocross on
>>> that sort of stuff now. I discovered that I didn't like riding a bike
>>> that could ride over stuff like that as if it was a perfectly smooth
>>> highway. Now back with an off-road bike with no suspension riding
>>> off-road is fun again.
>>>
>> Agreed. This would have been a fairly dull ride on my MTB (aside from
>> the views) and also much slower. The cross bike is considerably faster
>> for light trail riding. Not that there aren't great MTB options in
>> Winter Park too.
>
> S'funny you two should say that. On one hand, I really enjoy messing
> around with my CX bike on all sorts of rides. On the other hand, the
> single biggest revelation I had was my recent sojurn to a mountain bike
> park riding what is apparently called a "slopestyle" bike.
>
> On one hand, this is a skookum bike with 5" of travel, so I was
> immediately hitting bigger jumps and drops than I ever have before, and
> with ease. As a guy whose other MTB is an XC hardtail, this was't hard.
>
> The other thing is that I was doing tons and tons of skinnies and other
> "surface" stunts (teeter totters, logs, ladders) with ease. Some of that
> was down to the easygoing handling and superfat tires.
>
> But the other element was that a ton of travel, great brakes, and slack
> front end meant that when I fouled something up (say, dropping my front
> wheel off a teeter totter early) instead of bottoming out and causing me
> to endo over, the bike's front end would compress, I'd stay in place,
> and all of a sudden we'd be doing zero miles an hour with no drama and
> I'd pedal away.
>
> The bike made dumbass me capable of riding most of the park (virtually
> all the medium-rated stunts, and some of the hard-rated surface
> obstacles) after about an hour of practice.
>
> Bike:
>
> <http://www.bansheebikes.com/bikes/wildcard.html>
>
> Park:
>
> <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6f_lpZoN18>
>

Congratulations on first use of "slopestyle" in RBR unless of course you
just made that word up. Same goes for "skookum".

Bret

Ryan Cousineau

01-04-1970, 04:23 PM

In article <u96dnTjYeoDIvhDVnZ2dnUVZ_vWdnZ2d@earthlink.com>,
Bret Wade <bret.wade@gmail.com> wrote:

> Ryan Cousineau wrote:
> > In article <MYudnWaAJZhTcRbVnZ2dnUVZ_hOdnZ2d@earthlink.com>,
> > Bret Wade <bret.wade@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>> "Bret Wade" <bret.wade@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >>> news:77-dnUxMLe9aSxbVnZ2dnUVZ_vjinZ2d@earthlink.com...
> >>>> Here are some pictures from my ride today on the Winter Park ski
> >>>> mountain with the cross bike with a triple. I've included a picture of
> >>>> your favorite rock garden on Ice Hill just for you.
> >>>>
> >>>> http://www.fischer-wade.net/wp_cross2/
> >>> I sold my Santa Cruz Superlight and just ride my Raleigh Cyclocross on
> >>> that sort of stuff now. I discovered that I didn't like riding a bike
> >>> that could ride over stuff like that as if it was a perfectly smooth
> >>> highway. Now back with an off-road bike with no suspension riding
> >>> off-road is fun again.
> >>>
> >> Agreed. This would have been a fairly dull ride on my MTB (aside from
> >> the views) and also much slower. The cross bike is considerably faster
> >> for light trail riding. Not that there aren't great MTB options in
> >> Winter Park too.
> >
> > S'funny you two should say that. On one hand, I really enjoy messing
> > around with my CX bike on all sorts of rides. On the other hand, the
> > single biggest revelation I had was my recent sojurn to a mountain bike
> > park riding what is apparently called a "slopestyle" bike.
> >
> > On one hand, this is a skookum bike with 5" of travel, so I was
> > immediately hitting bigger jumps and drops than I ever have before, and
> > with ease. As a guy whose other MTB is an XC hardtail, this was't hard.
> >
> > The other thing is that I was doing tons and tons of skinnies and other
> > "surface" stunts (teeter totters, logs, ladders) with ease. Some of that
> > was down to the easygoing handling and superfat tires.
> >
> > But the other element was that a ton of travel, great brakes, and slack
> > front end meant that when I fouled something up (say, dropping my front
> > wheel off a teeter totter early) instead of bottoming out and causing me
> > to endo over, the bike's front end would compress, I'd stay in place,
> > and all of a sudden we'd be doing zero miles an hour with no drama and
> > I'd pedal away.
> >
> > The bike made dumbass me capable of riding most of the park (virtually
> > all the medium-rated stunts, and some of the hard-rated surface
> > obstacles) after about an hour of practice.
> >
> > Bike:
> >
> > <http://www.bansheebikes.com/bikes/wildcard.html>
> >
> > Park:
> >
> > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6f_lpZoN18>
> >
>
> Congratulations on first use of "slopestyle" in RBR unless of course you
> just made that word up. Same goes for "skookum".
>
> Bret

I didn't make up either word, though "slopestyle" is a very recent
coinage in freeriding.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skookum

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinook_jargon

That's right, our own damn language. Take that, California!

--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@gmail.com http://www.wiredcola.com/
"In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
"In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."

Bret Wade

01-04-1970, 04:24 PM

Ryan Cousineau wrote:
> In article <u96dnTjYeoDIvhDVnZ2dnUVZ_vWdnZ2d@earthlink.com>,
> Bret Wade <bret.wade@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Ryan Cousineau wrote:
>>> In article <MYudnWaAJZhTcRbVnZ2dnUVZ_hOdnZ2d@earthlink.com>,
>>> Bret Wade <bret.wade@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>> "Bret Wade" <bret.wade@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:77-dnUxMLe9aSxbVnZ2dnUVZ_vjinZ2d@earthlink.com...
>>>>>> Here are some pictures from my ride today on the Winter Park ski
>>>>>> mountain with the cross bike with a triple. I've included a picture of
>>>>>> your favorite rock garden on Ice Hill just for you.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.fischer-wade.net/wp_cross2/
>>>>> I sold my Santa Cruz Superlight and just ride my Raleigh Cyclocross on
>>>>> that sort of stuff now. I discovered that I didn't like riding a bike
>>>>> that could ride over stuff like that as if it was a perfectly smooth
>>>>> highway. Now back with an off-road bike with no suspension riding
>>>>> off-road is fun again.
>>>>>
>>>> Agreed. This would have been a fairly dull ride on my MTB (aside from
>>>> the views) and also much slower. The cross bike is considerably faster
>>>> for light trail riding. Not that there aren't great MTB options in
>>>> Winter Park too.
>>> S'funny you two should say that. On one hand, I really enjoy messing
>>> around with my CX bike on all sorts of rides. On the other hand, the
>>> single biggest revelation I had was my recent sojurn to a mountain bike
>>> park riding what is apparently called a "slopestyle" bike.
>>>
>>> On one hand, this is a skookum bike with 5" of travel, so I was
>>> immediately hitting bigger jumps and drops than I ever have before, and
>>> with ease. As a guy whose other MTB is an XC hardtail, this was't hard.
>>>
>>> The other thing is that I was doing tons and tons of skinnies and other
>>> "surface" stunts (teeter totters, logs, ladders) with ease. Some of that
>>> was down to the easygoing handling and superfat tires.
>>>
>>> But the other element was that a ton of travel, great brakes, and slack
>>> front end meant that when I fouled something up (say, dropping my front
>>> wheel off a teeter totter early) instead of bottoming out and causing me
>>> to endo over, the bike's front end would compress, I'd stay in place,
>>> and all of a sudden we'd be doing zero miles an hour with no drama and
>>> I'd pedal away.
>>>
>>> The bike made dumbass me capable of riding most of the park (virtually
>>> all the medium-rated stunts, and some of the hard-rated surface
>>> obstacles) after about an hour of practice.
>>>
>>> Bike:
>>>
>>> <http://www.bansheebikes.com/bikes/wildcard.html>
>>>
>>> Park:
>>>
>>> <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6f_lpZoN18>
>>>
>> Congratulations on first use of "slopestyle" in RBR unless of course you
>> just made that word up. Same goes for "skookum".
>>
>> Bret
>
> I didn't make up either word, though "slopestyle" is a very recent
> coinage in freeriding.

I thought maybe it meant "bike that can be only ridden down slope". This
weekend, I encountered a couple of chairlift riding slugs walking their
bikes along a level section of trail in full body army, apparently
anticipating the next downhill stretch that would allow them to get back
on their bikes.

Bret

bjw@mambo.ucolick.org

01-04-1970, 04:24 PM

On Jul 27, 9:36 pm, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Bret Wade <bret.w...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Congratulations on first use of "slopestyle" in RBR unless of course you
> > just made that word up. Same goes for "skookum".
>
> > Bret
>
> I didn't make up either word, though "slopestyle" is a very recent
> coinage in freeriding.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skookum
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinook_jargon
>
> That's right, our own damn language. Take that, California!

Fascinating!

I believe I just learned that the Chinook Jargon
phrase for "dumbass" is "hum opoots."

And where "mucketymuck" comes from. And that there
is such a thing as a Mountain (Suwellel) Beaver,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountain_beaver
which neither lives on mountains nor is a beaver,
but appears to be a sort of primitive squirrel,
and looks like a really bad thing to get in
your mountain bike's spokes.

This is totally awesome even if it's all made up,
which is why I love Wikipedia.

Ben

P.S. Howard, the trick compact crank is to find
an old 7 speed XT 110/74 crank. It fits great
on road bikes and doesn't have a wide q factor.
You need a square taper BB, of course. I know
compact cranks are a dime a dozen now, but most
of them look like crap.

Howard Kveck

01-04-1970, 04:24 PM

In article <_7ydnRUOzMMn0xDVnZ2dnUVZ_qPinZ2d@earthlink.com>,
Bret Wade <bret.wade@gmail.com> wrote:

> I thought maybe it meant "bike that can be only ridden down slope". This
> weekend, I encountered a couple of chairlift riding slugs walking their
> bikes along a level section of trail in full body army, apparently
> anticipating the next downhill stretch that would allow them to get back
> on their bikes.

That is truly appaling. A few years ago, I was riding my cross bike up a local
trail (dirt Alpine Rd.) when two guys came down it on their downhill rigs - I'd seen
them transfer one bike from one car onto the other for the trip to the top (leaving
one car at the bottom for the trip back up to the other car). They yelled, "what're
you doing, dude?" at me. "Something you can't" was my reply.

By the way, that cross bike runs 34-48 rings normally and an 11-21 cogset. I don't
climb much really steep stuff on (though I do some, going past some mountain bike
guys in granny ring stuff on one hill). It's also used as a winter "training" bike,
when I put road tires on it. There are a few hills where I can get spun out in the
48-11. I do have a 52 tooth ring that I have run on ocassion. Yes, that's a big gap
(34 to 52) but I use (oddly enough) a downtube lever and an older Record derailleur,
so I don't have trouble doing that shift (it's also got a mid cage Chorus rear
derailleur). When I was putting it together, there were no road compact cranks. I
have a set of XTR cranks (952s, I believe) with the spider that's held on with a nut
- I took the spider off, modified it so it could be turned over to get a good chain
line. The thing I don't like about those cranks is the enormous 'Q' factor - my feet
feel like they're about a mile apart.

I'll put up more later:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/iamhbomb/2708809775/

--
tanx,
Howard

The bloody pubs are bloody dull
The bloody clubs are bloody full
Of bloody girls and bloody guys
With bloody murder in their eyes

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

d p chang

01-04-1970, 04:24 PM

Bret Wade <bret.wade@gmail.com> writes:

> This weekend, I encountered a couple of chairlift riding slugs walking
> their bikes along a level section of trail in full body army,
> apparently anticipating the next downhill stretch that would allow
> them to get back on their bikes.

bah! i've lost track of where you were riding, but they've started
growing pretty weak mtb-ers all over.

i've been riding a 6"-6" as my cross country bike for a while now
(mostly to piss off the guys i ride w/ by calling it 'my cross country
bike' :-). a guy i know rides a 10" bike on some of the rides.

\p
---
Boredom is a vital problem for the moralist, since at least half the
sins of mankind are caused by the fear of it. --- Bertrand Russell

Ryan Cousineau

01-04-1970, 04:25 PM

In article <YOURhoward-4FC894.22503927072008@newsgroups.comcast.net>,
Howard Kveck <YOURhoward@h-SHOESbomb.com> wrote:

> In article <_7ydnRUOzMMn0xDVnZ2dnUVZ_qPinZ2d@earthlink.com>,
> Bret Wade <bret.wade@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I thought maybe it meant "bike that can be only ridden down slope". This
> > weekend, I encountered a couple of chairlift riding slugs walking their
> > bikes along a level section of trail in full body army, apparently
> > anticipating the next downhill stretch that would allow them to get back
> > on their bikes.
>
> That is truly appaling. A few years ago, I was riding my cross bike up a
> local
> trail (dirt Alpine Rd.) when two guys came down it on their downhill rigs -
> I'd seen
> them transfer one bike from one car onto the other for the trip to the top
> (leaving
> one car at the bottom for the trip back up to the other car). They yelled,
> "what're
> you doing, dude?" at me. "Something you can't" was my reply.

The bike I was riding was pretty close to that bad, though I have to say
that fitness makes up for a lot. Not to put too fine a point on it, but
typical freeriders aren't spending as much time at aerobic exercise as
even half-hearted roadies. So they look bad pedaling uphill even on
suitable bikes.

Actually, I shouldn't libel it; The bike wasn't all that heavy, and well
below the weight of serious DH rigs.

> By the way, that cross bike runs 34-48 rings normally and an 11-21 cogset.
> I don't
> climb much really steep stuff on (though I do some, going past some mountain
> bike
> guys in granny ring stuff on one hill). It's also used as a winter "training"
> bike,
> when I put road tires on it. There are a few hills where I can get spun out
> in the
> 48-11. I do have a 52 tooth ring that I have run on ocassion. IntereYes, that's a
> big gap
> (34 to 52) but I use (oddly enough) a downtube lever and an older Record
> derailleur,
> so I don't have trouble doing that shift (it's also got a mid cage Chorus
> rear
> derailleur). When I was putting it together, there were no road compact
> cranks. I
> have a set of XTR cranks (952s, I believe) with the spider that's held on
> with a nut
> - I took the spider off, modified it so it could be turned over to get a good
> chain
> line. The thing I don't like about those cranks is the enormous 'Q' factor -
> my feet
> feel like they're about a mile apart.
>
> I'll put up more later:
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/iamhbomb/2708809775/

Very cool. Send them to the Cyclocross Bike Porn group. Also, did you
get it custom-built with a lever boss on only one side of the downtube?

--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@gmail.com http://www.wiredcola.com/
"In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
"In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."

Bret

01-04-1970, 04:25 PM

On Jul 27, 11:50*pm, Howard Kveck <YOURhow...@h-SHOESbomb.com> wrote:
> In article <_7ydnRUOzMMn0xDVnZ2dnUVZ_qPin...@earthlink.com>,
> *Bret Wade <bret.w...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I thought maybe it meant "bike that can be only ridden down slope". This
> > weekend, I encountered a couple of chairlift riding slugs walking their
> > bikes along a level section of trail in full body army, apparently
> > anticipating the next downhill stretch that would allow them to get back
> > on their bikes.
>
> * *That is truly appaling. A few years ago, I was riding my cross bike up a local
> trail (dirt Alpine Rd.) when two guys came down it on their downhill rigs - I'd seen
> them transfer one bike from one car onto the other for the trip to the top (leaving
> one car at the bottom for the trip back up to the other car). They yelled, "what're
> you doing, dude?" at me. "Something you can't" was my reply.
>
> * *By the way, that cross bike runs 34-48 rings normally and an 11-21 cogset. I don't
> climb much really steep stuff on (though I do some, going past some mountain bike
> guys in granny ring stuff on one hill). It's also used as a winter "training" bike,
> when I put road tires on it. There are a few hills where I can get spun out in the
> 48-11. I do have a 52 tooth ring that I have run on ocassion. Yes, that's a big gap
> (34 to 52) but I use (oddly enough) a downtube lever and an older Record derailleur,
> so I don't have trouble doing that shift (it's also got a mid cage Chorus rear
> derailleur). When I was putting it together, there were no road compact cranks. I
> have a set of XTR cranks (952s, I believe) with the spider that's held on with a nut
> - I took the spider off, modified it so it could be turned over to get a good chain
> line. The thing I don't like about those cranks is the enormous 'Q' factor - my feet
> feel like they're about a mile apart.
>
> * *I'll put up more later:
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/iamhbomb/2708809775/

Nice looking bike. I still have a Syncros steel crankset with 110 bolt
circle that I use from time to time.

Bret

bjw@mambo.ucolick.org

01-04-1970, 04:25 PM

On Jul 27, 11:01 pm, Howard Kveck <YOURhow...@h-SHOESbomb.com> wrote:

> It's also worth mentioning that sometimes promoters will put sections in the
> course that really can't be ridden, like stairs that must be climbed. You ran some of
> the Surf City races, didn't you, Ben? Back in the early '90s, they had a course out
> at a sawmill where they ran the course over a huge pile of bark chips, as I recall.
> Do you remember that, or am I hallucinating it?

I never did any real work at Surf City, I just raced
and marshalled once or twice. I used to help out at
some of the Central Coast CX and MTB races. My club
(SCCCC) also has put on some late-season races, but
that happened after I left the area.

The Surf City course you're thinking of was before
my time, but I've heard of it. It was out at a
Big Creek sawmill, I think. There are a bunch of
old course sites that can't be used anymore just
because the races are now too big and they can't
accomodate all the people or the parking.
Dave Carr's Napa Valley Velo website had some
reminiscences of Stone Age Norcal cyclocross
courses, gleaned from the NCNCA list and maybe rbr,
from people like Casey, Jeff Clark and Bob Leibold.

Santa Cruz-area races often have a medium to large
run-up. The biggest and best is the run-up at the
County Fairgrounds course in Watsonville, the queen
of all Santa Cruz CX courses. Of course, there are
other ways for a section to be unrideable. One year
it rained a lot before a race at San Lorenzo High
and there was a section that had been grass, but
instantly became 100+ feet of deep mud bog. I had
forgotten to duct tape my shoes on and nearly lost
one (funnily, I was riding in those same shoes today).
I think some people did lose shoes, and probably
had to wait a month for them to surface.

> For Michael, here's a link to the Pilarcitos cross series. Their races are usually
> quite good.
>
> http://www.pilarcitos.com/2008Cross.htm
>
> And the Surf City series (it's last year's schedule, but it'll be updated if they
> run it):
>
> http://surfcitycx.blogspot.com/
>

Also http://www.cyclocross.cx/
http://www.cccx.org/
The Pilarcitos races are the biggest, but some of
the other series have a more local feel and can
have more interesting courses.
And if you're out in the Livermore to Sacramento
area, Bob Leibold usually puts on some races. The
courses are often considered "legendary." The
definitive resource is the NCNCA race calendar at
http://www.ncnca.org/ , but it won't be all settled
for another month or so.

Ben

Howard Kveck

01-04-1970, 04:25 PM

In article <rcousine-D1F478.23161027072008@[74.223.185.199.nw.nuvox.net]>,
Ryan Cousineau <rcousine@gmail.com> wrote:

> In article <YOURhoward-4FC894.22503927072008@newsgroups.comcast.net>,
> Howard Kveck <YOURhoward@h-SHOESbomb.com> wrote:

> > That is truly appaling. A few years ago, I was riding my cross bike up a
> > local trail (dirt Alpine Rd.) when two guys came down it on their downhill rigs -
> > I'd seen them transfer one bike from one car onto the other for the trip to the
> > top (leaving one car at the bottom for the trip back up to the other car). They
> > yelled, "what're you doing, dude?" at me. "Something you can't" was my reply.
>
> The bike I was riding was pretty close to that bad, though I have to say
> that fitness makes up for a lot. Not to put too fine a point on it, but
> typical freeriders aren't spending as much time at aerobic exercise as
> even half-hearted roadies. So they look bad pedaling uphill even on
> suitable bikes.

I'd say that's pretty accurate. Obviously there are exceptions.

> Actually, I shouldn't libel it; The bike wasn't all that heavy, and well
> below the weight of serious DH rigs.

I don't pay that much attention to looking at either kind of bike when I'm at the
LBS so how much are you talking for weight?

> > http://www.flickr.com/photos/iamhbomb/2708809775/
>
> Very cool. Send them to the Cyclocross Bike Porn group. Also, did you
> get it custom-built with a lever boss on only one side of the downtube?

When it was originally made ('93 or so, I believe), it had both bosses on one
side, with one further forward so I could mount an adjustable cable stop for the rear
shifter. Before it was re-powder coated, I took that boss off and moved the cable
stops around for top run.

--
tanx,
Howard

The bloody pubs are bloody dull
The bloody clubs are bloody full
Of bloody girls and bloody guys
With bloody murder in their eyes

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

Ryan Cousineau

01-04-1970, 04:25 PM

In article <YOURhoward-82D6B6.23404527072008@newsgroups.comcast.net>,
Howard Kveck <YOURhoward@h-SHOESbomb.com> wrote:

> In article <rcousine-D1F478.23161027072008@[74.223.185.199.nw.nuvox.net]>,
> Ryan Cousineau <rcousine@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > In article <YOURhoward-4FC894.22503927072008@newsgroups.comcast.net>,
> > Howard Kveck <YOURhoward@h-SHOESbomb.com> wrote:
>
> > > That is truly appaling. A few years ago, I was riding my cross bike up
> > > a
> > > local trail (dirt Alpine Rd.) when two guys came down it on their
> > > downhill rigs -
> > > I'd seen them transfer one bike from one car onto the other for the trip
> > > to the
> > > top (leaving one car at the bottom for the trip back up to the other
> > > car). They
> > > yelled, "what're you doing, dude?" at me. "Something you can't" was my
> > > reply.
> >
> > The bike I was riding was pretty close to that bad, though I have to say
> > that fitness makes up for a lot. Not to put too fine a point on it, but
> > typical freeriders aren't spending as much time at aerobic exercise as
> > even half-hearted roadies. So they look bad pedaling uphill even on
> > suitable bikes.
>
> I'd say that's pretty accurate. Obviously there are exceptions.
>
> > Actually, I shouldn't libel it; The bike wasn't all that heavy, and well
> > below the weight of serious DH rigs.
>
> I don't pay that much attention to looking at either kind of bike when I'm
> at the
> LBS so how much are you talking for weight?

The Wildcard weighed about 35 pounds, with the caveat that I was riding
a top-spec model. It felt good.

In this category of bikes, 35 pounds is getting pretty darned light.
there would be "All-Mountain" bikes that weigh nearly as much.

--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@gmail.com http://www.wiredcola.com/
"In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
"In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."