Zabel

[Bob Schwartz]

Another Tour come and gone, and he's been almost
invisible. He won't win on Sunday either.

If that's the way he's going to be he should stop
showing up. He should stay home and watch videos
from when he mattered.

Bob Schwartz

[dustoyevsky@mac.com]

On Jul 25, 10:44*am, Bob Schwartz <bob.schwa...@REMOVEsbcglobal.net>
wrote:
> Another Tour come and gone, and he's been almost
> invisible. He won't win on Sunday either.
>
> If that's the way he's going to be he should stop
> showing up. He should stay home and watch videos
> from when he mattered.
>
> Bob Schwartz

Cyclingnews:

Sprints
Chantelle - 102.5 km
1 Sylvain Chavanel (Fra) Cofidis - Le Crédit par Téléphone 6 pts
2 Jérémy Roy (Fra) Française des Jeux 4
3 Erik Zabel (Ger) Team
Milram 2

Points classification
1 Oscar Freire Gomez (Spa) Rabobank 244 pts
2 Erik Zabel (Ger) Team Milram 202

Today's finish:

1 Sylvain Chavanel (Fra) Cofidis - Le Crédit par Téléphone 3.37.09
(45.73 km/h)
2 Jérémy Roy (Fra) Française des Jeux
3 Gerald Ciolek (Ger) Team Columbia 1.13
4 Erik Zabel (Ger) Team Milram
5 Heinrich Haussler (Ger) Gerolsteiner
6 Leonardo Duque (Col) Cofidis - Le Crédit par Téléphone
7 Filippo Pozzato (Ita) Liquigas
8 Thor Hushovd (Nor) Crédit Agricole
9 Robert Förster (Ger) Gerolsteiner
10 Julian Dean (NZl) Team Garmin-Chipotle p/b H30
11 Oscar Freire Gomez (Spa) Rabobank

(just to show a few names he finished in front of)

Pretty visible there.

Stage 2, 5th

Stage 3, 6th, 2nd in field sprint to MeEwen.

And so forth. Generally, often, up near the front for the field
sprint.

What's the real problem here? Just curious. --D-y

[Scott]

On Jul 25, 9:44*am, Bob Schwartz <bob.schwa...@REMOVEsbcglobal.net>
wrote:
> Another Tour come and gone, and he's been almost
> invisible. He won't win on Sunday either.
>
> If that's the way he's going to be he should stop
> showing up. He should stay home and watch videos
> from when he mattered.
>
> Bob Schwartz

If Zabel's results are indicative of him no longer mattering, then
what does that say about you? Do you matter? Have you EVER
mattered?

Since you don't matter, please stay home and don't show up here
anymore.

[ilanpsi@gmail.com]

On Jul 25, 5:44 pm, Bob Schwartz <bob.schwa...@REMOVEsbcglobal.net>
wrote:
> Another Tour come and gone, and he's been almost
> invisible. He won't win on Sunday either.
>
> If that's the way he's going to be he should stop
> showing up. He should stay home and watch videos
> from when he mattered.
>
> Bob Schwartz

It seems as if Zabel just doesn't feel the sprint as well as he used
to (apart from not being as fast). Both today and on previous stages,
you can see him looking around at 500m waiting for the real sprint to
start when he should just be in there basically knowing what do do
instinctively.

-ilan

[Bob Schwartz]

dustoyevsky@mac.com wrote:
> What's the real problem here? Just curious. --D-y

Some athletes know when it is time to move on. And by
'move on' I don't necessarily mean retirement. Musseuw
and Ja Ja are examples of guys that were entirely
different kinds of riders in the second half of their
careers than they were at the beginning.

Zabel should move on. People that can do the things he
can do don't waste their time chasing 2nd place in the
points classification. At least, not if they matter.

Bob Schwartz

[Nobody]

On Fri, 25 Jul 2008 10:48:36 -0700 (PDT), Scott
<hendricks_scott@hotmail.com> wrote:

>On Jul 25, 9:44*am, Bob Schwartz <bob.schwa...@REMOVEsbcglobal.net>
>wrote:
>> Another Tour come and gone, and he's been almost
>> invisible. He won't win on Sunday either.
>>
>> If that's the way he's going to be he should stop
>> showing up. He should stay home and watch videos
>> from when he mattered.
>>
>> Bob Schwartz
>
>If Zabel's results are indicative of him no longer mattering, then
>what does that say about you? Do you matter? Have you EVER
>mattered?
>
>Since you don't matter, please stay home and don't show up here
>anymore.

Surely this isn't Robert J Schwartz, who does know what a bike looks
like. If so, maybe he had a closed head injury?

Zabel has many fans even if he has a bunch of second places. He does a
lot with less due to his savvy and placement. Plus he starred in a
famous cycling movie :p

[Bob Schwartz]

Scott wrote:
> On Jul 25, 9:44 am, Bob Schwartz <bob.schwa...@REMOVEsbcglobal.net>
> wrote:
>> Another Tour come and gone, and he's been almost
>> invisible. He won't win on Sunday either.
>>
>> If that's the way he's going to be he should stop
>> showing up. He should stay home and watch videos
>> from when he mattered.
>>
>> Bob Schwartz
>
> If Zabel's results are indicative of him no longer mattering, then
> what does that say about you? Do you matter? Have you EVER
> mattered?
>
> Since you don't matter, please stay home and don't show up here
> anymore.

Dumbass,

I have never mattered. I have never been under the
impression that I have what it takes to be a Tour
sprinter.

Currently, that is a level of self awareness that
Zabel is missing.

Bob Schwartz

PS Maybe we need something analogous to the Senior
PGA Tour for you guys.

[Bob Schwartz]

Nobody wrote:
> Zabel has many fans even if he has a bunch of second places. He does a
> lot with less due to his savvy and placement. Plus he starred in a
> famous cycling movie :p

Seriously, doesn't watching him contest (and lose) sprints
trying to take second in the points competition remind
you of Joe Namath's last year with the Rams?

Bob Schwartz

[RicodJour]

On Jul 25, 2:39*pm, Bob Schwartz <bob.schwa...@REMOVEsbcglobal.net>
wrote:
> dustoyev...@mac.com wrote:
> > What's the real problem here? Just curious. * --D-y
>
> Some athletes know when it is time to move on. And by
> 'move on' I don't necessarily mean retirement. Musseuw
> and Ja Ja are examples of guys that were entirely
> different kinds of riders in the second half of their
> careers than they were at the beginning.
>
> Zabel should move on. People that can do the things he
> can do don't waste their time chasing 2nd place in the
> points classification. At least, not if they matter.

Why would he want to exit the limelight and get a real job? Real jobs
make people bitter. I'm not saying you're bitter, you sound bitter,
but I'm not saying it.

R

[Tom Kunich]

"Bob Schwartz" <bob.schwartz@REMOVEsbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:55pik.33965$ZE5.25486@nlpi061.nbdc.sbc.com...
> dustoyevsky@mac.com wrote:
>
> Some athletes know when it is time to move on.

Schwartz the Schwantz.

[Bob Schwartz]

RicodJour wrote:
> On Jul 25, 2:39 pm, Bob Schwartz <bob.schwa...@REMOVEsbcglobal.net>
> wrote:
>> dustoyev...@mac.com wrote:
>>> What's the real problem here? Just curious. --D-y
>> Some athletes know when it is time to move on. And by
>> 'move on' I don't necessarily mean retirement. Musseuw
>> and Ja Ja are examples of guys that were entirely
>> different kinds of riders in the second half of their
>> careers than they were at the beginning.
>>
>> Zabel should move on. People that can do the things he
>> can do don't waste their time chasing 2nd place in the
>> points classification. At least, not if they matter.
>
> Why would he want to exit the limelight and get a real job? Real jobs
> make people bitter. I'm not saying you're bitter, you sound bitter,
> but I'm not saying it.

Dumbass,

- By 'move on' I don't necessarily mean retirement. I mean
a role that fits his current skills.

- Taking 2nds and 3rds in mop up sprints isn't the limelight.

Bob Schwartz

[dustoyevsky@mac.com]

On Jul 25, 2:01*pm, Bob Schwartz <bob.schwa...@REMOVEsbcglobal.net>
wrote:

> >> Zabel should move on. People that can do the things he
> >> can do don't waste their time chasing 2nd place in the
> >> points classification. At least, not if they matter.
>
> > Why would he want to exit the limelight and get a real job? *Real jobs
> > make people bitter. *I'm not saying you're bitter, you sound bitter,
> > but I'm not saying it.
>
> Dumbass,
>
> - By 'move on' I don't necessarily mean retirement. I mean
> a role that fits his current skills.
>
> - Taking 2nds and 3rds in mop up sprints isn't the limelight.

I feel like we're dragging it out of you, if successfully.

What "things he can do" were you thinging of? Things on a bike, racing
in the pro-l-o-ton?
--D-y

[bjw@mambo.ucolick.org]

On Jul 25, 1:50*pm, "dustoyev...@mac.com" <dustoyev...@mac.com> wrote:
> On Jul 25, 2:01*pm, Bob Schwartz <bob.schwa...@REMOVEsbcglobal.net>
> wrote:
>
> > >> Zabel should move on. People that can do the things he
> > >> can do don't waste their time chasing 2nd place in the
> > >> points classification. At least, not if they matter.
>
> > > Why would he want to exit the limelight and get a real job? *Real jobs
> > > make people bitter. *I'm not saying you're bitter, you sound bitter,
> > > but I'm not saying it.
>
> > Dumbass,
>
> > - By 'move on' I don't necessarily mean retirement. I mean
> > a role that fits his current skills.
>
> > - Taking 2nds and 3rds in mop up sprints isn't the limelight.
>
> I feel like we're dragging it out of you, if successfully.
>
> What "things he can do" were you thinging of? Things on a bike, racing
> in the pro-l-o-ton?
> --D-y

Zabel has endurance (he always makes it to Paris)
and can climb (for a sprinter). He could win races
from breakaways, if he'd ever try to get into one.
Not just in Tour stages, but in one day races. Like
Jaja, Moose, Stuart O'Grady (former green jersey
contender, but ask him whether winning Paris-Roubaix
is bigger than being 2nd for Green).

Bob's said this before and it's a good point, but you
all haven't been paying attention.

Ben

[Tom Kunich]

<bjw@mambo.ucolick.org> wrote in message
news:6374a66e-18b5-4bb9-baf5-97d40672b4b7@q28g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
>
> Zabel has endurance (he always makes it to Paris)
> and can climb (for a sprinter). He could win races
> from breakaways, if he'd ever try to get into one.
> Not just in Tour stages, but in one day races. Like
> Jaja, Moose, Stuart O'Grady (former green jersey
> contender, but ask him whether winning Paris-Roubaix
> is bigger than being 2nd for Green).

Yawn! When did you discover how to tell whether Zabel's near misses don't
have more advertising value than doing breakaways?

[Ted van de Weteringe]

bjw@mambo.ucolick.org schreef:
> Zabel has endurance (he always makes it to Paris)

Dumbass, http://www.letour.fr/HISTO/TDF/riders/fr/609.html

[dustoyevsky@mac.com]

On Jul 25, 4:23*pm, "b...@mambo.ucolick.org" <b...@mambo.ucolick.org>
wrote:
> On Jul 25, 1:50*pm, "dustoyev...@mac.com" <dustoyev...@mac.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Jul 25, 2:01*pm, Bob Schwartz <bob.schwa...@REMOVEsbcglobal.net>
> > wrote:
>
> > > >> Zabel should move on. People that can do the things he
> > > >> can do don't waste their time chasing 2nd place in the
> > > >> points classification. At least, not if they matter.
>
> > > > Why would he want to exit the limelight and get a real job? *Real jobs
> > > > make people bitter. *I'm not saying you're bitter, you sound bitter,
> > > > but I'm not saying it.
>
> > > Dumbass,
>
> > > - By 'move on' I don't necessarily mean retirement. I mean
> > > a role that fits his current skills.
>
> > > - Taking 2nds and 3rds in mop up sprints isn't the limelight.
>
> > I feel like we're dragging it out of you, if successfully.
>
> > What "things he can do" were you thinging of? Things on a bike, racing
> > in the pro-l-o-ton?
> > --D-y
>
> Zabel has endurance (he always makes it to Paris)
> and can climb (for a sprinter). *He could win races
> from breakaways, if he'd ever try to get into one.
> Not just in Tour stages, but in one day races. *Like
> Jaja, Moose, Stuart O'Grady (former green jersey
> contender, but ask him whether winning Paris-Roubaix
> is bigger than being 2nd for Green).
>
> Bob's said this before and it's a good point, but you
> all haven't been paying attention.

If I don't remember, is that the same as not paying attention?

Does (or has) the peloton ever let Zabel get into a break? --D-y

[bjw@mambo.ucolick.org]

On Jul 25, 2:28*pm, Ted van de Weteringe
<myfulln...@xs4all.nl.invalid> wrote:
> b...@mambo.ucolick.org schreef:
>
> > Zabel has endurance (he always makes it to Paris)
>
> Dumbass, http://www.letour.fr/HISTO/TDF/riders/fr/609.html

Luftmensch, don't believe everything you read:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2006/tour06/?id=results/tour0620
http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2007/tour07/?id=results/tour0720

I think letour.fr hasn't updated the 2006 and 2007 results -
compare any other rider to see. Zabel was 4th and 3rd
on the Champs in 2006 and 2007.

Ben

[Bob Schwartz]

dustoyevsky@mac.com wrote:
> Does (or has) the peloton ever let Zabel get into a break? --D-y

Erik Dekker comes to mind as a guy that had the creativity to
make stage wins appear out of nothing. If Zabel might take his
eye off the trashcan sprints for a second who knows what he
might find.

Bob Schwartz

[Ted van de Weteringe]

bjw@mambo.ucolick.org wrote:
>>> Zabel has endurance (he always makes it to Paris)
>> Dumbass, http://www.letour.fr/HISTO/TDF/riders/fr/609.html
>
> Luftmensch, don't believe everything you read:
>
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2006/tour06/?id=results/tour0620
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2007/tour07/?id=results/tour0720
>
> I think letour.fr hasn't updated the 2006 and 2007 results -

Obviously. Still, there's 1994.
:sigh of relief:

[dustoyevsky@mac.com]

On Jul 25, 10:39*pm, Bob Schwartz <bob.schwa...@sbcREMOVE.global.net>
wrote:
> dustoyev...@mac.com wrote:
> > Does (or has) the peloton ever let Zabel get into a break? *--D-y
>
> Erik Dekker comes to mind as a guy that had the creativity to
> make stage wins appear out of nothing. If Zabel might take his
> eye off the trashcan sprints for a second who knows what he
> might find.
>
> Bob Schwartz

Wiki says Dekker won 4 stages (3 in one year).

Zabel, 12. Plus Milan-San Remo four times, and so forth.

Which starts the question of "how much is Zabel getting paid on this
job v. what he's going to get paid for the next one", which choices
incl. "opportunistic stage winner".

I (FWIW) might like to see what would happen should Zabel take your
approach but I think it might work _once_, and never ever again <g>!

Again, FWIW, I quite enjoy seeing Zabel mix it up with the children.
As stated before, he is straining the pride of the young set. --D-y

[Bill C]

On Jul 26, 9:46*am, "dustoyev...@mac.com" <dustoyev...@mac.com> wrote:

> I (FWIW) might like to see what would happen should Zabel take your
> approach but I think it might work _once_, and never ever again <g>!
>
Yeah, they might let him go, but I'd guess that anyone else who was
stage hunting, and the sprointers teams would cover him pretty
quickly, since if he does get away with a break, it's pretty much a
foregone conclusion if it does come down to a small break sprint.

> Again, FWIW, I quite enjoy seeing Zabel mix it up with the children.
> As stated before, he is straining the pride of the young set. *--D-y

Agreed. I'd bet he's really enjoying the fact that he CAN still mix it
up with the kids, and pretty credibly. Love to see them come up with a
kid sprinter who's really got it, that he could mentor, set up, and
lead out for another year or two. Be a great end to a great career.
Bill C

[Bob Schwartz]

dustoyevsky@mac.com wrote:
> On Jul 25, 10:39 pm, Bob Schwartz <bob.schwa...@sbcREMOVE.global.net>
> wrote:
>> dustoyev...@mac.com wrote:
>>> Does (or has) the peloton ever let Zabel get into a break? --D-y
>> Erik Dekker comes to mind as a guy that had the creativity to
>> make stage wins appear out of nothing. If Zabel might take his
>> eye off the trashcan sprints for a second who knows what he
>> might find.
>>
>> Bob Schwartz
>
> Wiki says Dekker won 4 stages (3 in one year).
>
> Zabel, 12. Plus Milan-San Remo four times, and so forth.
>
> Which starts the question of "how much is Zabel getting paid on this
> job v. what he's going to get paid for the next one", which choices
> incl. "opportunistic stage winner".
>
> I (FWIW) might like to see what would happen should Zabel take your
> approach but I think it might work _once_, and never ever again <g>!
>
> Again, FWIW, I quite enjoy seeing Zabel mix it up with the children.
> As stated before, he is straining the pride of the young set. --D-y

His palmares aren't as good as this guy's:

http://azurservers.com/rbr/mm001.jpg

And Zabel's are only slightly more current.

My point about Dekker is that a couple of those stage wins were rides
that he totally pulled out of his ass by doing stuff that made you
think, wtf, where did that come from. And the question of whether the
peloton was going to let him do it never came up.

This feels odd to me. I look at the guy wearing Zabel's number and
watch him pilot a shopping cart through the Tour's trash cans, picking
out scraps. And I think, this isn't right. If the guy wearing Zabel's
number isn't going to ride like Zabel then maybe he should just stay
home.

But I see a lot of people groove on shopping cart pilots. Well, so
be it. I'm not one of them.

Bob Schwartz